[toscano]

ford hallam, on Jan 29 2008, 04:18 PM, said:

...so it has been suggested, very kindly, that I go and build my own playground.

I protest!

-t

p.s. but I am excited about the new site

[wunderlich]

I second that.




Karl

[Mark Strom]

I for one will sorely miss the stimulating and in depth discussions, not to mention the chance to view such outstanding work. In this day and age it is refreshing to encounter someone that stands for what they believe in and is willing to back up their opinions with a well thought out response.

Yes, you have been contrary as they say in the South (US) and strongly opinionated but you will be missed. Let us know where the new playground is.

Mark

[Leon]

I PROTEST TOO!

This is NOT the way.
Like Doug I let the last 'pie' for what it was, a little overeaten in the arts-crafts part.
But this looks like the kind of censorship I hate. Anonymous and without explanation.

We all have the choice of no reply. If you don't like the discussion start another. There's enough to share and talk about.

I ask the persons involved, as kindly as they asked Ford to leave, to step forward and explain themselfs.

!!!!!! (there are no appropriate emoticons for this occasion but these come close )

(And also from the Hitchhikersguide: "I think you ought to know, I'm feeling very depressed"!)

Leon

[Dick Bonham]

Hi Ford,
?????????????????????????????????
Dick

[Fred E. Zweig]

I am clueless of what has happened and I understand that your leaving is a loss to the forum and I look forward to meeting again in another.

Ford you have and will continue to be an inspiration to excellence.

Fred

[Mark Strom]

I too thought about the explanation for this decision and looked back at the posts. Seems fairly obvious that Ford poo pooed in the wrong place. Politically incorrect you know, you know how sensitive some are in the US to such things.

That being said, if this is the case then I am not sure which smells worse...the poo or the removal of it!

Mark

[Janel]

Dear members of The Carving Path forum,

It is reasonable that you have questions about Ford’s post, and what inspired it.

Just over three years ago, Don Fogg, Jim Kelso and myself, Janel Jacobson created this forum, with the founding precept:

The Carving Path welcomes carvers from many disciplines, whose work involves small scale carving. We hope that this forum will provide a friendly, informative and accessible place for communication and learning.

It is what I measure situations against when faced with administrative responsibilities regarding membership concerns. The three-year history of the ups and downs of forum ownership has had its challenges and successes. For most of the time, the forum members have supported the friendly atmosphere, and when it has not, the original team worked behind the scenes to try to re-emphasize the original precept for this forum. The team has changed, having lost both Don and Jim in past years while they each attended to matters in their private lives, and since then Tom Sterling has been my great administrative team partner.

Owning and administering this forum has been very rewarding, while watching the members help and encourage one another. I hope to maintain a thoughtful, respectful, and informative atmosphere where carvers can learn and can be helpful to others. When posts become contentious, insulting, or when pointedly strong opinions intimidate the quieter members from participating, I grow concerned for the well being of the membership group as a whole. This is a reflection on the past three years of watching the interaction between the members, and considering what is shared with me privately as administrator to all of the members. I don't believe that content needs to be sacrificed in order to maintain civility. Some may rather prefer the robust jostling and that is their prerogative. It is not the atmosphere I wish to promote here.

Yesterday, after receiving an announcement about Ford’s new blog space, I wrote to him with a concept for a new internet forum, which could be a good place for his ideas and energies to blossom and provide a means for him to bring his knowledge to the world. For example, the addition of the “Metals” area to The Carving Path forum was a response to the popularity of the good subjects that continued to be posted, much in response to Ford’s willingness to share his knowledge. In addition, the recently added "Beginning a Project; Concept to Design” was directly related to his original post and concept. Much of Ford’s participation has been a valuable asset to The Carving Path forum.

If such a new forum were to be created, he could bring a wealth of focused knowledge to the world of the metal bashers. I asked him to think of the potential for what he could do outside of my constraints on The Carving Path forum, the influence he could have, the depth and breadth of the relevant discussions examining metals, and where he could go with a similar “The Way” concepts. His participation on The Carving Path demonstrates this potential.

The concept of a new forum was given honestly, having watched the strength of his ideas, and the quality of his contributions. It could be a massively popular arena for information sharing, and his forum discussion creativity would be limitless.

I sincerely apologize for the lateness of this message.

My letter to Ford yesterday was sent privately, and I expected a private response, which did not occur. This is unfortunate. His time zone is eight hour ahead of mine, so he has had many hours to react, and has responded by deleting images from his posts. I have suspended his membership for 24 hours, while I try to understand what is happening, and preserve the integrity of the remaining forum archives.

I am a slow, thoughtful and careful thinker, and am stunned by his extreme response to my letter. I did not tell him to leave this forum in my message to him yesterday.

I regret that this is happening.

Janel

[Sjoerd Brink]

I think it's possible to react strongly to a firm opinion without causing a fight, some people might even call it a discussion. Wether one is able to have a discussion or not is an entirely different matter.

Blog on F.!

Sjoerd

[Fred E. Zweig]

Janel,

I have found over the years that the internet is ripe for the possibilities of missunderstanding. It cannot detect inflection or tone of the speaker/writer. I have seen individuals take a perfectly harmess statement and internalize it into an attack. This happens in the interaction of individuals in real life person to person contact. I hope this resolves itself to the benefit of all conscerned. Thank you for confiding in us and explaining what took place.

It was interesting to hear the history of the website. I also understand the time and effort it takes to maintain it. It is appreciated.

Sincerely,
Fred

[Janel]

Thank you Fred, for your thoughtful remarks.

Janel

[Doug Sanders]

Thanks for your reply, Janel. I appreciate your openness. I do disagree with where you've drawn the line, in terms of the tone with which discussion has occured. The forum is administered by you though and I respect your decisions. We do not know what others have emailed you privately either.
It's truly unfortunate if the tone of discussion on certain threads has kept others from jumping in, or contributing one way or another. On one hand, I'm sorry that others may have felt intimidated or insulted, or whatever, but discussion and bruised egos and sour grapes are all part of growing.
At no point do I recall anyone deliberately insulting another's work. Negative comments perhaps, but we all are careful to couch them in constructive terms. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Still with the vast numbers of members of TCP who do not contribute, one wonders. I think it has little to do with this particular forum. I'll bet the same ratio exists for just about all forums, list serves, and user groups online.

The range and quality of work on this forum is wide. For me, the advanced work has given me something to strive towards, while the less developed pieces show me problems I dealt with in the past or currently relate to. Sometimes I'm even able to share advice to help others.

-Doug Sanders

[Janel]

Thank you as well Clive,

When I learned that Ford removed images from his posts, the suspension was a quick decision to curtail further activity until he and I had a chance to communicate. We have, now, but the topic of the suspension has not yet been discussed, as we were communicating about much else. He has not been banned or deleted.

Taken out of context, it reads much like you indicate. The overall letter was an encouragement that he consider creating a new web site, using his talents as a leader to create a more robust web forum.

It may be that I should filter my significant communications through a committee so as not to say anything that could be misconstrued.

In context in the whole paragraph:

"Your activity on The Carving Path makes me think that it is time for you to create your own forum, perhaps to be called “Following The Iron Brush”. You would then be free to liven up your communications beyond the limits I wish to see on my forum. You do have a following on TCP, so there would be a seedbed of participants to begin with. Members shift between forums, and the different forums compliment one another, such as Bladesmith's, Lindsay's engraving forum. Your forum would be a defining interest group unlike any other forum on the web so far."

The final paragraph reads:

"You are the type of person who could run a forum and bring a wealth of focused knowledge to the world in this manner. You have proved it on TCP, with the growing interest resulting in the addition of the Metals area. Think of what you could do outside of my constraints on TCP, the influence you could have, the depth and breadth of the relevant discussions examining metals and where you could go with a similar “The Way” concepts. You are using TCP in like this already, not content to see the quieter days pass as the members recover from busy life times. The “Following The Iron Brush” forum would be a good place for your ideas and energies to blossom and provide a means for you to bring your extensive knowledge to the world."

Those of you who have met me are few. I do not walk this earth to hurt people's feelings or to attack their character. Ford and I have met, and Clive and I have also. A few other members know me personally as well. It was not my intention to hurt Ford or disregard his significant contributions. I believe that he has potential for leading a new forum and for doing a great job with it.

Again, I sincerely regret that this is happening.

Janel

[Leon]

Thank you Janel for your explanations.

In this case it seems possible to understand both party's.
In general, lots of my e-mails have proven to be more harsh and grim than intended.
As Fred said: "the internet is ripe for the possibilities of misunderstanding".

Intentions are clear now, or at least clearer.
I suggest this is the last post in this topic.
Janel and Ford are able to deal with this in private e-mails.
I am sure both are willing a continuation of a rich and pluriform TCP.

Wish you all wisdom!

Leon.

[toscano]

Thank you Janel for your explanations.
It seems like a misunderstanding from my point of view and it's good to clarify the situation.

I'll mirror some of Doug's thoughts here but for all it's worth:
I favour complete freedom of expression on this and all other forums.
I believe in their ability to self-regulate and in the individuals' abilities to 'play nice'.
Having said that, I accept that this is ultimately a site with regulations and guidelines and they should be respected or I can choose not to participate.
Running a forum cannot be a trivial commitment in both time and resources, and I know we all appreciate the efforts of those involved in it.
It seems like a delicate path to both maintain freedom and civility in a 'conversation' of hundreds of people.
Choices need to be made and they are not all easy, nor all options solely correct or incorrect.

I hope this issue gets resolved and it should be, as Leon suggests, by those involved.
I also hope we can remember the purpose of this forum: to share knowledge and experiences within this small group of people and to promote an honest discussion.
We all mean well.

peace and such
Tassos

[Mark Strom]

Janel
I appreciate your openness with your communications, so many other forums I visit and belong to are quite the opposite. I am also greatly relieved that my assumption was wrong and I apologize for jumping out there. Sometimes the so called obvious is not so obvious after all.

I do hope that you and Ford can work this out to the benefit of us all. As I have said, it would be a loss to have Ford leave the forum. It is now between the two of you to come to terms with whatever misunderstandings have taken place. I will bow out somewhat red faced and keep my opinions to myself.

Mark