[fkvesic]

I've searched TCP, but don't think there is a particular thread on this topic, though there's lots of info throughout the site, so I thought it might be an idea to have a thread on finishing.

The reason why is that I'm at the stage of staining/oiling my first netsuke. The wax I'll be using some weeks from now will be Renaissance Wax and hand polishing/burnishing techniques.

The staining stage was interesting. Though I'm familiar with water and oil-based wood stains and dyes, and fabric dyes like Dylon and Procion, I wanted something that I'd made myself and to experiment. So, knowing that tea and coffee will stain fabric, but that coffee staining would be too dark for my purposes, I steeped 6 teabags for half an hour in a mug of water, then boiled it down to a consistency that would just cover the netsuke. I didn't want to boil the 8-year old sycamore that I'd used, fearing it might crack, so successively steeped it for 15 secs, 30 secs, 1 min and two mins in the concoction that was just off the boil, gently drying the piece between steepings under a lamp bulb. After the first steeping, I realised that the tea-stain was too yellow for my purposes, so steeped 6 rooibos (redbush) teabags for half an hour, added that to the tea-stain and boiled the whole lot down until it just covered the netsuke. I also added a little salt and white vinegar as a mordant. The result is just what I wanted - not too dark, but a mid-red/brown shade on the softer end grain and a golden orangy-red on the long grain.

After giving it a couple of days to dry out, I resanded the piece, wasn't pleased with the sanding on some of the intricate details, but had a idea that I could improve it by oiling and then burnishing (with a sanded down cocktail stick and a bone bookbinding page creaser). It's working. The piece has had two oilings and burnishings so far and is to have its final oiling tomorrow. Then I'll leave it to dry for however long it takes before waxing and final polishing/burnishing.

I hadn't wanted to use boiled Linseed Oil, or even Tung or Danish oil, as these tend to darken the woods even more. A woodworking friend of mine uses many different types of oil that he prepares and suggested that I boil and cool sunflower oil (to get rid of any organic material and stop it going rancid) and use that, steeping the piece for ten minutes at a time over three day, lifting it out of the oil and letting it sit overnight to soak in the oil remaining on it. He has a theory that vegetable oils won't go rancid if they're raised to just before smoking point and then cooled (which is how boiled Linseed Oil is anyway prepared) and will harden quicker. I was left with an odourless oil that hasn't darkened the wood very much and seems to be working - so far. Time will tell.

I'll put up photos of the piece when it's waxed and finished.

[fkvesic]

Many thanks for the tips on oils and burnishing, Clive. I hadn't taken advice on the burnishing and, luckily, have only been doing it lightly. I'll watch it, though, over the weeks of drying. Re the grape oil, do you boil it first, or use as is?

[fkvesic]

Again, my thanks, Clive - and for the extra tips, too.

[Phil White]

Interesting technique, Clive. I quite like the idea. Are you applying enough oil to fill lines or recessed areas, or is it just a very tiny amount rubbed over the high points? Does the grapeseed oil eventually dry with time?

This approach reminds me of a furniture conservator that I studied finishes with many years ago, who believed that regarding oil finishes, less was more, but in general, oil was only really good for "finishing ship's decks".

Thanks for sharing.

Phil

[Phil White]

Thanks, Clive!

Understood. This is very similar to recommendations for finishing techniques recommended in 19th century texts on carving. Surfaces on old work that have not been refinished show a surface that has been finished by carving alone, sometimes by many tiny cuts, but no abrasives, save perhaps the lightest touch with "dutch rush" in recessed areas to remove a few loose fibres.

Phil

[fkvesic]

I'd paid so much attention to the detail of carving, I hadn't really thought about the effect of light on the surface of wood, just accepted that the piece needed polishing. The comments from both of you indicate the difference in approach between masters and a beginner. So much to learn! I hope I've not ruined this piece.

[fkvesic]

"Recently I've started experimenting with essential oils.. might our sense of smell affect our visual experience"

I'd also thought about that, too, Clive. Don't know if I'll try it just yet, though. I've also some experience of making and fixing my own vegetable dyes and have been toying with that idea, too.

On subjectivity and experience re oiling - yes, I suppose it is, but my method of initially dunking the piece now seems a bit heavy-handed and thoughtless. And keeping notes is a good idea - I do/did it for textiles as I found that I forgot what I had done a while after a piece was completed.

[magnus homestead]

Thank you Fkvesic and Clive for a very informative and interesting discussion. I am especially thankful to having my attention drawn to the interaction of individual cells and the finish. I know that fine luthiers and furniture makers abore abrasives such as sandpaper as it "clogs the pores" of the wood. I hope to carve something sometime of enough subtlety to truly warrent these finishiing techniques. Thanks again.

It's good to drop back here - I've been on other projects this winter and have been missing the forum.

Magnus

[Leonid_g]

fkvesic, on Feb 15 2009, 09:14 PM, said:

The staining stage was interesting. Though I'm familiar with water and oil-based wood stains and dyes, and fabric dyes like Dylon and Procion, I wanted something that I'd made myself and to experiment. So, knowing that tea and coffee will stain fabric, but that coffee staining would be too dark for my purposes, I steeped 6 teabags for half an hour in a mug of water, then boiled it down to a consistency that would just cover the netsuke. I didn't want to boil the 8-year old sycamore that I'd used, fearing it might crack, so successively steeped it for 15 secs, 30 secs, 1 min and two mins in the concoction that was just off the boil, gently drying the piece between steepings under a lamp bulb. After the first steeping, I realised that the tea-stain was too yellow for my purposes, so steeped 6 rooibos (redbush) teabags for half an hour, added that to the tea-stain and boiled the whole lot down until it just covered the netsuke. I also added a little salt and white vinegar as a mordant. The result is just what I wanted - not too dark, but a mid-red/brown shade on the softer end grain and a golden orangy-red on the long grain.

I read in one of the books on the processing of wood. One way to quickly dry a tree - boiling. Wet wood can crack, dried - very rare.

[fkvesic]

The wood I used was very dry to begin with, Leonid. Even with the staining method I used, it raised a flake of wood which had to be sanded off and left a pit, leaving the surface to be reshaped, so I was pretty sure that boiling it wasn't a good idea. I guess every piece of wood has to be treated differently.

[fkvesic]

Just found this. Some people might find it intriguing:

http://www.publicbookshelf.com/public_html...oddyes_cbh.html