[Matthew]

Does anyone know where I might be able to find slabs or small boulders of good quality Marsden Flower Jade from New Zealand?

[WCraig]

Matthew, on Mar 12 2009, 03:23 PM, said:

Does anyone know where I might be able to find slabs or small boulders of good quality Marsden Flower Jade from New Zealand?

Mathew,

Currently all New Zealand Jade is claimed and Owned by the indiginous people, the Maori. Jade rough may not be exported and all carved work must be done by Moari and then exported.
The only other place is the black market.

So be careful of any purchases as to legality and quality.

lithosglyph

[Ana Veler]

Much as I know, 'flower jade' is a Chinese term that applies to somewhat similar patterns in jadeite, serpentine and nephrite (just to keep things simple, I suppose!). Chances are you can find the type of rough from a manageable source of Canadian or Russian nephrite or jadeite... The folks on Friends of Jade (forum) are amenable to artistic demands (i.e. order for an interesting pattern rather then bulk delivery); asking the owner of the forum, Fred Ward, for a hint should yield some interesting options (worked for me, with a different, but not unrelated inquiry). Nikki Makeapeace from the 'Jade Mine' could be a direct alternative.

http://www.friendsofjade.org/

http://www.jademine....ex.php?cPath=67

Nephrite mineralization being as it is, chances to ever run out of interesting patterns are slim...

Just an idea from an outsider

Took a bit of a risk of stating the obvious, considering what good fate natural materials have a shot at on this corner of the web!

[Matthew]

Thanks for the leads!

Matt

[NobleHouse]

Matthew, on Mar 12 2009, 12:23 PM, said:

Does anyone know where I might be able to find slabs or small boulders of good quality Marsden Flower Jade from New Zealand?

Aloha Mathew, just wanted to clarify a couple things that might help;

While no "new" stone has been released by the tribe controlling it in the past few years and no plans are in sight to do so, many NZ carvers are working from materials they had before the source "dried up". Many others walkabout and don't turn in, as they're supposed to, any found material they get in their travels.

IF you're lucky enough to find someone who has a stockpile they're willing to let some go from, ALL that is necessary for export is that it be worked a bit. I'm not sure the exact amount but as long as it's been ground, cut or carved to some degree it can be exported. Only RAW stone is forbidden from export.

Hope that helps, best of luck and Aloha from Kauai!!


(information is direct from some of the NZ carvers I represent in our retail business, so should be true and accurate to the date of this note.)

[NobleHouse]

WCraig, on Mar 16 2009, 09:07 AM, said:

Mathew,

Currently all New Zealand Jade is claimed and Owned by the indiginous people, the Maori. Jade rough may not be exported and all carved work must be done by Moari and then exported.
The only other place is the black market.

So be careful of any purchases as to legality and quality.

lithosglyph

I'm sorry but this simply isn't true or accurate. There are MANY non-Maori carvers working in NZ who export their work on a regular basis. I'm not sure who told you this but check your sources.

The NZ Jade market is one of the MOST troubled of all time. There is a TON of fraud in the industry, so much so that it's more common than not to get taken when you buy from NZ direct. Many of the carvers there, including some of the most famous names, use their designs but have the work done in foreign materials (Siberian, BC and even Alaskan stone) and in foreign lands then re-import it to NZ for sale. I even had one piece tested by GIA that turned out to be GLASS.

This information comes STRAIGHT from the New Zealand Commerce Commission, Department of Customs and Fair Trade Offices of the NZ Government. I was involved in a two year investigation into one incident of this that ended in '08. While they found 8 counts of prosecutable fraud, they refused to prosecute telling us it was the "tip of an iceberg" and the industry itself would suffer greatly were they to try and enforce quality control. If anyone wants to see the information I can forward the findings and official reports to them on request.

Aloha, buyer beware!!

[Matthew]

NobleHouse, on Mar 23 2009, 04:49 AM, said:

Aloha Mathew, just wanted to clarify a couple things that might help;

While no "new" stone has been released by the tribe controlling it in the past few years and no plans are in sight to do so, many NZ carvers are working from materials they had before the source "dried up". Many others walkabout and don't turn in, as they're supposed to, any found material they get in their travels.

IF you're lucky enough to find someone who has a stockpile they're willing to let some go from, ALL that is necessary for export is that it be worked a bit. I'm not sure the exact amount but as long as it's been ground, cut or carved to some degree it can be exported. Only RAW stone is forbidden from export.

Hope that helps, best of luck and Aloha from Kauai!!


(information is direct from some of the NZ carvers I represent in our retail business, so should be true and accurate to the date of this note.)

Mahalo for the info!

[Billy]

Not sure how you got on, Mathew. But here's some added info I hope will helps.

Pounamu, or New Zealand Jadeite, is getting hard to get hold of, but not impossible. The whole pounamu industry is controlled by the Ngai Tahu tribe of the South Island of New Zealand, as all the pounamu is found on their land. They now control the harvesting and distribution on the stone. There has been some high-profile cases of helicopters going in and getting it out (stealing it), but locals are pretty savvy to the goings on in their area, and it doesn't seem to happen too much.

Although there isn't a shop to buy the stone from, there are plenty of stone available on trademe.co.nz – a local auction site similar to ebay. You can buy slabs, small boulders and a lot larger ones as well, including the odd bit of Marsden. Search all listings for greenstone or pounamu.

I don't think there are too many legal restrictions sending it to the states, but I might be wrong. Converse with the vendor for more details if you like.

I am still trying to find a good source for all pounamu, but Ngai Tahu seem to have it pretty well under wraps at the mo and only seem to distribute it to thier hapu (extended family) and extended iwi (tribe) members. But where there's a will, there's a way.

I hope this helps a little, Billy.

[Donn Salt]

Hey Guys .... Have been meaning to enter this for some time..... Here is the proposed Nga Tahu management plan for NZ nephrite jade
Although this was implemented over 12 years ago I am informed by aspiring young carvers there is still no significant jade available to further the art of contemporary jade-carving in N.Z.
There is still the occasional indigenous jade able to be obtained from old collections and estates as and when becomes available. Sometimes seen on www.TradeMe.co.nz as Billy mentions.
Should one be so fortunate as to possess such anyone is able to legally export up to 10lb of raw jade at a time without infringing on present legislation. This limit was introduced immediately post WWII as a protection for the rehab. of returned soldiers. Prior to this most of the jade recovered was shipped off to Ida Oberstien in Germany. Much of to be mutilated into mindless souvenir trinkets and atrocious representations of 'tiki'. Not allot different today with much of the commercial jade souvenir items being carved out of the country from foreign jade with original designs plagiarized and cheapened beyond the scope of the originators to compete with.

However one must recognize that nephrite is a gift of the Earth and occurs in multitude locations all over the world. Often equal to and sometimes superior to any of our best NZ jades. The energies of the material are still that of the planet wherever it may be found. As history informs us all cultures who used jade held the stone in the highest esteem.
Of recent times I have personally researched and been fortunate in securing numerous specimens of jade, both nephrite and jadeite, from many sources around the globe. Often, the qualities of which have blown me away..... !!!! Not to mention rare colors which are not found here in NZ. Particularly the Whites, olives and blues.



This pendant is a rare, blue tinged, Wyoming nephrite. Carved as an experiment with this gifted specimen when in the US last month. A particularly beautiful stone which was a pleasure to work and unfortunately the only example passed into my hands.
Of a similar color and even more rewarding to carve is a little known Yukon nephrite, which is equal to any jade I've had the honor of applying tool to. NZ or exotic.


The Yukon block ..... and pendant from it below....

A smooth, creamy feeling to this subtle Yukon Blue when carving.

Wandered off theme somewhat..... started with the pebble below.

This palm sized pebble of Marsden 'Flower Jade' is almost identical to a sample found in Northern California. The difference was literally impossible to discern.
Remarkable maybe, although to be expected as the serpentine structures along the US western coast line are not dissimilar to the geological structures of New Zealand and other examples from northern California confirmed there are very similar occurrences which are very close in appearance and color to NZ jade.

[lauri]

Hi Donn, I have seen some fotos of NZ carvings but these on your website are the best so far. Seeing them makes your fingers to tickle, allthoug one realizes that it would not be easy. There is also the question if it's "allowed" to someone like me to copy such items? Not for sale but for own pleasure. Do you have the answer? Lauri.

[Donn Salt]

lauri, on Nov 22 2009, 07:53 AM, said:

Hi Donn, I have seen some fotos of NZ carvings but these on your website are the best so far. Seeing them makes your fingers to tickle, allthoug one realizes that it would not be easy. There is also the question if it's "allowed" to someone like me to copy such items? Not for sale but for own pleasure. Do you have the answer? Lauri.

Hi Lauri,
Thank you for your so kind words. They are very much appreciated.

Here is an extract to a friend who recently queried something of the likes about a mutual compatriot.......

"Yep, see the influence in the work... All cool and to be expected as the plays with evolving skills illustrate. One trusts their own design senses will mature with time and experience. We all learn from that which has gone before us..... 'tis the nature of learning. Fascinating and encouraging to follow the growth."

We all learn from works which have preceded us where emulation is a natural and accepted evolvement. It is when these originals are copied, mass produced and enter the commercial realms, motivated by self serving profits, with no recognition or return to the originators that plagiarism runs riot. Alas, all too common in todays world.

Much activity with pencil to paper is crucial in developing ideas and design..... even redrawing and expanding on existing works without necessarily remaking them will be of immense benefit. This is where line and balance will become second nature. Highly encouraged is a study and understanding of the Golden Mean which will also greatly assist in successful imagery and design.

Have fun Lauri, the possibilities are endless ....... limited only by the imagination!

Cheers .... Donn

[Jason Tweedie]

Hi Donn, I have been giving the Wyoming material a whirl lately too and luv it, so user-friendly and a pleasure to work with, it almost sanded itself. (image: "Warrior Heart" 2009, wyoming nephrite. I am calling this Maori/Celtic fusion, it has a lovely gemmy ring when tapped) as you say looking for NZ Nephrite is like looking for the ruins of Atlantis....so I am keeping the few nice pieces I have for that special project and going with the Siberian, US and Chinese stuff and finding new pleasures in Jade again, as working that lower quality NZ material is no fun at all. Shame that. As always...very impressed with your latest output...I luv those lilly forms too!

Cheers, Jason

[Jim Kelso]

Lovely bit that, Jason.
Can almost hear it ring.
And Donn I missed your graceful blue pendants earlier.
All sublime.

Jim

[Jason Tweedie]

Thanks Jim....I haven't been on the TCP much lately, but am aiming to get more pro-active in the future. There is so much great work to be found on this site.
Cheers, Jason

Jim Kelso, on Dec 2 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

Lovely bit that, Jason.
Can almost hear it ring.
And Donn I missed your graceful blue pendants earlier.
All sublime.

Jim

[Donn Salt]

Looking good Jason...... cool design to match the stone!
The Wyoming 'Honey Olive' is a fantastic jade. And like all high quality, sought after jades is becoming scarcer and more expensive. However, was fortunate in obtaining a few pound at the last Big Sur Jade Fest. A bit darker than this one. The specimen you've carved here is of that 'best of the best' which is equal to any of NZ's top material and like you say, such a pleasure to work. No hidden surprises!
For me, when carving it, it feels 'older' and more mature than NZ jade and is a supreme gift of Mother Earth.
I was told recently this is supposed to be the oldest jade on the planet. How one determines that beats me although am quite prepared to believe it after carving a cuppla pieces.

Cheers..... Donn

[Jason Tweedie]

Donn, thanks for your tick of approval....the piece is a gift for a carver friend in Greymouth, I wonder if he get inquiries about where he got the gem Marsden from, this guy is a NZ stone only guy. I know what you mean when you talk about the "older" feel, its has a lot of power (mana) and really buzzed in my hand when finished, I wore it for a couple of days or should I say it wore me, it almost feels like the stone is leading the journey through the day as you would know. I managed to aquire some good blocks off John Snook on ebay recently, he has knows his stuff. That Big Sur festival sounds like a great event, might make it along one day. Cheers, Jason