31 replies to this topic

[Natasha]

How many lances were broken about my Ryusa netsuke "Seven Worthies in the bamboo grove"! I want to dispel some idle conjectures distributed by Clive Hallam on this forum and among some dealers a collectors. I understood that my words meant nothing for Clive, that's why I did this test. I've carved a fragment of my Ryusa netsuke using sizes of the original, this fragment was carved from a piece of mammoth tusk. I used a strip of transparent polyethylene because it lets to see the fragment as it is. If anybody needs I can use a cord instead this strip of polyethylene. This construction was hanged up for 4 days, no deformation or crack! I'm sure, as before, the Ryusa netsuke "Seven Worties in the bamboo grove" can be worn! It is absolutely functional netsuke and can be called netsuke! I think Clive will continue to upset my reputation, even more agressive. If somebody thinks that Clive healthy criticized me, please re-read his replies here: http://www.thecarvingpath.net/forum/index....t=0&start=0
Criticism when it was spoken openly, but when sombody upset the reputation behing the back of an artist it more looks as a dirty competition.

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[Karl Carvalho]

Aloha Natasha,

As I asked, somewhere around here, has anyone road tested these theories? At least you took the first step. It is implied that you accept the consequences, good or bad.

As to assumptions made to this point, I see some holes:
1)would there be a difference between something worn on a 1,000 mile journey vs. one worn only on a night out to a Noh drama?
2)would a piece worn by, say aristocracy (and made by an acknowledged artist ) not be kept safe until placed on the person by a dresser?
3)would not a client of means take the “risk of purchase” for an exceptional work to show respect, affection, power etc. to its intended recipient?

I could go on for a while. The point is, nuance, not black and white.

Any viable art form will have its evolution. I, personally, would rather work forward and push boundaries, than stay in place, endlessly replicating accepted practices. I say, let time judge your work. It’s only fair.

Karl

Still would like to see you in a kimono.

[Leon]

Natasha, on Dec 8 2009, 07:57 PM, said:

Criticism when it was spoken openly, but when sombody upset the reputation behing the back of an artist it more looks as a dirty competition.

Dear Natasha,

Don't get upset but I do not agree. (I'm not sure if that's allowed, but I simply do not.) I can read English and all you refer to was open and considerate. ( I bet you took a lot of Janels time PM-ing her.) There is competition nor hate.

I even dare to say that your 'experiment' proves nothing. (Please read very carefully. I say nothing about your carving.)
From a pure technical point of view it (the experiment) is useless. There are lots of books about construction and weight distribution, you should read some. Hanging a weight from a wide band can never be compared with the same weight hanging from a spot.
And there is the effect of movement, little shocks can do a lot damage when repeated.

I'm not convinced. I wait for the first member of this forum to back you up. You, and others, have noting to fear from me.

[Claire]

Hello.. As a friend of Clive's.. I think its only fair to also add for the information of anybody reading this thread that he was banned from this forum yesterday by Janel and so cannot respond to Natasha's claims on this thread. I understand however that he has done so the Following the Iron Brush forum.

Bye
Claire

[Don Barnhill]

Natasha,

I think your work is beautiful. If I were you I wouldn't worry too much about criticism. Let the work speak for itself. If your clients are happy and you are satisfied with the piece, that's what counts.

Thank you for sharing your work with us. Please show us more.

[chris]

A lot of bridges get built in different ways and a lot dont think they will ever be strong enough because they look too flimsy but they are a lot of sticks make a pole .
thats where the strength is not a single stick so to speak . Clive banned me from the brush because i did a silly drawing of one of Fords moderaters .couldnt help it i draw im a drawer and having trouble with the person .but it was taken the wrong way things get out of hand on forums .they say they like to listern only when its going there way .
i asked questions trying to learn about tsubas , i did things one way i was told i was wrong , then i questioned why was this one done the same as mine i get a answer because he did , what sort of a answer is that ,they preach good as long as you agree with them nothing is as you see it.
Ford is a good man but he has people that think they are him and try to impress him they never will and fail miserelaby.

Natasha your work is impecable , if they could only live that long to be half as good as you as i said many sticks make a pole
Chris ,

[Natasha]

Hello Karl, I was forced to do this test because a lot of people more believe Clive, my words meant nothing then. That's why I had to lose my time, nerves and my mood for creating unfinished netsuke.
I think there is difference between things used in different conditions. I won't wear high-heeled shoes if I'm going to walk the whole day by my feet. Everything has its predestination. My Ryusa netsuke is for a holiday, it can be worn the whole day, I don't think that a person with such Ryusa will go to hew logs. Several collectors have got my Ryusa netsuke in their collections, I don't think that somebody would spend his money just showing his respect to me!

Hello Leon and Clair, I'm not going to prove something else anymore, I've demonstrated all. Everyone can has own opinion different from mine! Somebody believes me, somebody believes Clive. The worlds is
multi-polars! This test was done for people who wants to build own opinion. I don't force anybody! I've posted these photos on the forum of Ford. As I understood Clive and his people don't want to hear and to think of, they prefer to speak a lot of something around-scientific. It is their right! So, they have their place and their public what else they need!

Hello Don, thank You very much! I've demonstrated what I wanted, now I'm going to come back in my world and forget this empty around-scientific discusses. As soon my new netsuke is finished I'll publish its photos! I promise!
Hello Chris and thank You! Sorry, I don't know the whole story with You, I visit forums not often, but I'm astonished that You was banned by Clive! Clive and his brother always say about healthy criticism when they criticize another artist, but when You begin to criticizes them they've banned You! Paradox! Isn't it? Yes, I read a lot of Clive's thoughts about bridges, cars and wind, I even received this link from Clive: http://www.engineeringcivil.com/tacoma-nar...e-collapse.html This effect is called resonance! I just wonder how many Ryusa netsuke were ruined by this effect when they were worn on obi? How many
chance to get RESONANCE for Ryusa netsuke???? It sounds as ravings of a madman! I'm sorry for my sarcasm, Ryusa netsuke is not a bridge, too different functions, materials, sizes and etc!!
With my deep respect,
Natasha

[Leon]

Again Natasha, I'm not interested in the construction of your piece of art. I am just criticizing the experiment.
Please aim your arrows accurate.
Oh and Chris is a very, very long story.

[Natasha]

Hi Leon, personally for You I'll repeat this experiment with a silk cord in a week or so, here is crazy repairs in my flat that's why this hammer is very popular thing among our workers! How often should I swing the hammer on a silk cord for a day and how long this construction has to be hanged up (a week, a month, a year)? I also wonder are there standart tests for Ryusa netsuke? I read about Masatoshi test for his netsuke written in another topic, but it is more for Katabori style, it doesn't work for Ryusa style, because Ryusa netsuke is much lighter! What tests do You usually use for your netsuke? What weight do You hang up? How long do You usually test your netsuke? I think your tests can be useful and interesting for other netsuke-shi!

[Claire]

chris, on Dec 9 2009, 05:57 AM, said:

Clive banned me from the brush because i did a silly drawing of one of Fords moderaters .couldnt help it i draw im a drawer and having trouble with the person .but it was taken the wrong way things get out of hand on forums .they say they like to listern only when its going there way .
i asked questions trying to learn about tsubas , i did things one way i was told i was wrong , then i questioned why was this one done the same as mine i get a answer because he did , what sort of a answer is that ,they preach good as long as you agree with them nothing is as you see it.

Hello,

I think its only fair to post a reply to this post as Clive isn't able to do so himself. Chris was banned from the Iron brush for repeatedly sending highly offensive and threatening PM messages to members of the admin team. The drawing that Chris refers too was just the last straw.. it depicted a German member of the forum Admin team dressed as a Nazi and was considered repugnent and racist. His membership was initially suspended for two weeks to let things cool down.. but Chris responded to that action with by sending threatening PM's. Chris was then banned by the entire Admin team.

Bye
Claire

[Leon]

Natasha, please stop acting childish.
What part of "I don't care about construction" do you not understand?

Janel can you please stop this, lots of us had enough.

[Professor Rhubarb]

I, of course, support Natasha. Her experiment indicates (dare I say, proves) that small segments of mammoth can withstand significant pressure. This overlooks the fact that no one wears netsuke anymore anyway, so why are you so worried about damage?

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...little shocks can do a lot damage when repeated...

And?
Show me a Tiffany lamp that is not susceptible to damage. Show me a mint-condition Donatello. Everything I see in these forums is susceptible to damage in some way, so I don't see why Natasha's netsuke got singled out (even after she has gone out of her way to protect her credibility and illustrate her understanding of material properties).

I'm willing to bet that, 500 years from now, Natasha's netsuke will not change one bit (except for colour, maybe).

[Leon]

It's your right to support Natasha.
But again: "why are you so worried about damage?" well... I'M NOT!!
Construction is NOT one of my concerns. Call it okimono or netsuke... I will NOT enter that discussion.

[Natasha]

Hello Clair, please don't be angry with Chris, he just boasted with this fact that he was banned! I asked Ford to ban me yesterday evening! I don't agree with them, I prefer calm and constructive atmosphere, something similar library, where I can read useful information without Zenon Philosophy!

Leo, there is nothing awful that I have another opinions different from yours! But I don't force You!
Can You recommend your books about construction and weight distribution, their title - please! I'm going to buy some books on a book-auction! I hope there is a lot of information how to costruct Ryusa netsuke from mammoth tusk, calculations of resistance of materials (mammoth tusk in my case). It will be my handbook!

Just a thought, how many netsuke-shi calculate their netsuke using resistance of used materials?
Leo if You calculate your netsuke, please, share your calculations with me and other netsuke-shi!
One more thought, everything can be damaged, even pyramida in Egypt!

[Leon]

"Leo if You calculate your netsuke, please, share your calculations with me and other netsuke-shi! "
This is really terrible! Childish too!
Can someone please translate this in Russia: I'M NOT INTERESTED IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF YOU RYUSHA.
I have books though, lots of them, can you read Dutch? (We are famous for our bridges)

[Claire]

Hello Natasha,

I'm not angry with anybody, I'm merely giving other members reading this thread, including yourself the facts. I noticed in your reply to Chris that you say "I'm astonished that You was banned by Clive! Clive and his brother always say about healthy criticism when they criticize another artist, but when You begin to criticizes them they've banned You! Paradox! Isn't it?"

Now that you've been informed of the facts.. that Chris was banned not for making constructive criticism of Clive or Ford but for being threatening and racist to another member of the admin team.. I imagine that you will be less astonished and see no "paradox" in that situation.

Natasha, I've known Clive for many years and can assure you he has in fact been very upset that his critique upset you so much. Your words do mean something to him. Also he does not try to hurt his fellow artists, in fact one of the things I and some of his other close friends are astonished by is just how much time and money he spends helping others. I am visiting him at his house right now but he is not here, even though he just had a big operation and is very sick he has gone to post office to send materials to other artists, always for free. If I'm not mistaken he also sent you some material once. No??

Maybe its best if you just take some time to think about everything and then things might look different.

BTW your work is very beautiful. Clive always tells me that you are one of the best carvers in the world.

Yours sincerely
Claire

[Natasha]

Hi Clair!
I didn't read that story with Chris, why it was and how happened. Let's miss it!

Clair, sometimes people look honest and kind being not so inside. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to discuss about Clive's character here, there is another theme. I sympathize his problem with teeth, he wrote about it.
Yes, Clive sent to me piece of a raw material, I didn't ask him to do so. I don't want be indebted to Clive and I want to send it back, but Clive wrote the wrong address then. If You know his address, please send it by PM.
I don't know how upset he is, words mean words nothing else. He's selected this way, not me. He is a big boy and he is able to think before to do a step. So, Clair, with my deep respect I cannot get your opinion.

Better to be right, than to be corrected.
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus.

[Natasha]

Leon, if the construction of Ryusa netsuke is not interesting for You, WHAT are You doing here? There is a discussion of Ryusa netsuke, not a bridge! Please read the title of this topic And please keep your emotions positive, nobody tries to hurt You. Simply I don't know what test would be right for You! - Sorry, You are so funny! Will You see a difference between bridge and netsuke some day?
I agree here, bridges were perfectly done in your country, I watch Discovery channel!

[Claire]

Natasha,

Now I am angry.

It was you who started this post saying many bad things about Clive's character!!!!
It was you who said things about what Chris has said!!!

I try just to help you understanding the true facts. If you had ethics you would not attack him in place he cannot reply.

I think you to angry to make sense.

I go

Bye
Claire

[chris]

Hello Claire ,
i said about the pic as i said a lot of stuff gets taken the wrong way on forums and if you dont think so whats all this then,

I explained to Clive later about that subject on here actualy in a email , i was being hounded by a certain person he was taking comand while Ford was away trying to impress him ,Even Clive himself said he was out of order on the brush forum for everyone to read and some would not post a comment on the subject because of him. so there is always 2 sides of a coin .
and i believe this is one too we all have different opinions thats why we are all different .otherwise we would all be making the same boring stuff.

Thanks for your input Claire.
Chris