[kristopher skelton]

It's a start for those of you who want to try your hand at making your own chisels. It's for my second steel carving chisel, but the theory applies to wood carving and stone carving tools as well. My caution for thin wood carving tools it to not let the edge get too hot. It's easy to do and you'll find you always get an edge that won't stay sharp.

Enough ado....

The following link is no longer avialable: www.alchemyforge.net/chiseltutorial.html

I'm completely open to suggestions, additions and "What the hell were you thinking?!" type comments

This post has been edited by Janel: 06 February 2011 - 07:38 PM
Reason for edit: The link no longer works.

[Janel]

That's a great tutorial, Kris! Thanks! Even a non metal basher might try her hand at it with narrower stock for littler tools for little non metal carvings!

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[Patrick Hastings]

kristopher skelton, on Sep 22 2005, 11:25 PM, said:

It's a start for those of you who want to try your hand at making your own chisels.  It's for my second steel carving chisel, but the theory applies to wood carving and stone carving tools as well.  My caution for thin wood carving tools it to not let the edge get too hot.  It's easy to do and you'll find you always get an edge that won't stay sharp.

Enough ado....

http://www.alchemyfo...eltutorial.html

I'm completely open to suggestions, additions and "What the hell were you thinking?!" type comments
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice Tutorial Kristopher. You went to allot of effort to lay that out. If I may offer some metallurgical advice on one segment of your process.
The part where you’re heating to 800F and quenching will not refine the grain. What you want to do for grain refinement and prep for heat-treat is called normalizing. You bring the piece slightly above the upper critical temp and air cool to a black heat. Repeat if you like, but most of the benefits come from the first cycle. You heat the steel to basically the same level of heat it takes when you go to harden the steel. At this temperature all of the steel recrytalizes. This is the mechanism for refining the grain. The Steel recrystalizes in the form of new smaller crystals clusters. These New cluster sizes can be locked in if you cool the steel below critical (black heat is good here) If you cool too fast it hardens, but will still be fine grained. If you cool too slow you lose some of the refinement do to new grain growth. Depends on the steel type, but an air cool is usually your best bet. if you are not hot enough to be in the critical range no refinement of grain will occur. If you don’t get into the same range that you harden with there will be no recrystalization and therefore no new smaller clusters (grain).

[Jim Kelso]

Thanks Kris & Patrick.

[tsterling]

Nice tutorial, Kris. Even though you might be a novice at carving, you did have a major contribution to make! Thanks - I keep thinking about carving metals, so this looks quite useful.

[kristopher skelton]

I air-normalize my blades but for the chisels I've been trying the "thermal cycling" as described in the video linked to here: http://forums.dfoggk...?showtopic=3512


I just took another look and I think that I -did- normailze it, more or less, without realizing it and adding the step to the tutorial. The chisel was heated and worked very slightly, for picture purposes, before being clamped in the vice to be filed. Setup for the pictures took long enough that my wife actually touched the tip and it wasn't at all hot. Then I went to the thermal shocking and hardening.....

So yes, everyone, please do heat to non-mag and then air cool. It will only help

[Patrick Hastings]

kristopher skelton, on Sep 25 2005, 01:44 PM, said:

I air-normalize my blades but for the chisels I've been trying the "thermal cycling" as described in the video linked to here:  http://forums.dfoggk...?showtopic=3512
I just took another look and I think that I -did- normailze it, more or less, without realizing it and adding the step to the tutorial.  The chisel was heated and worked very slightly, for picture purposes, before being clamped in the vice to be filed.  Setup for the pictures took long enough that my wife actually touched the tip and it wasn't at all hot.  Then I went to the thermal shocking and hardening..... 

So yes, everyone, please do heat to non-mag and then air cool.  It will only help
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am dubious about the Thermal "shocking" having any positive effects, but the temp is so low it wont hurt anything either. At worst it is a waste of time and feul. Should not cause any problems and that is probably the most important part. Most smiths I know refer to muliple Normalizations as "thermal cycling". I would treat the chisels just like blades.
At 800F with such a short time at heat there would be an insignificant amount of growth, but technically any time spent at temps approaching critical but not reaching it will coursen the grain. the hotter you get the worse the effect right up to recystalization temp where grains disolve and regrow.

[Dick Bonham]

Hi Ford,
You hit right on the nose.
Eliminate lots of sake. Kanpai.
Dick

[Patrick Hastings]

I see no reason use angry smileys about anything in this thread . The information provides was intended for those who can understand in an attempt to prevent extraneous steps from being disseminated to those trying to learn from the thread. Remove extraneous steps and you have made it simpler, No? There are many myths about heat-treatment of metals. Understanding what steps will benefit the steel and what steps won't is not useless technological banter, it is communication about the nature of the material. I don't think a better understanding of the material is a waste of anyone’s time, especially those that would teach. Mr. Skelton invited exactly such comments at the bottom of his post. If they were not invited I would not have said anything:)
Having fun in Japan ?

ford hallam, on Sep 27 2005, 11:21 AM, said:

Gentlemen,

please! , yet again we see the tendancy to get lost in technology. All this talk of thermal shock and grain realignment etc etc, is not really of much use to anyone. If your readers have has the slightest comprehension what you are talking about then is's highly probable that your diatribe is superflous. If on the other hand you intend to advise anyone who has no or little experience of the finer points of metal treatment you've chosen to explain the process in Klingon

Remember the KISS principle," keep it simple, stupid"

If this response appears somewhat harsh it's probably because that's the nature of steel

right , I'm off, more sake to eliminate

minasamma wo oyasumi nasai

Ford ( tsubaman )
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[kristopher skelton]

I just thought of something.... the guy in the video is some brand of European... think he meant 800C? That would certainly change the effect, I would think.

Either way, I've been "getting away" with not doing it for my blades and it's apparent that there's something missing in my application. So, I'll just remove that from the tutorial and we can all be done with it

Gambatte!!

[Dick Bonham]

Hi Ford,
You hit right on the nose.
Eliminate lots of sake. Kanpai.
Dick

[Patrick Hastings]

kristopher skelton, on Sep 27 2005, 04:54 PM, said:

I just thought of something.... the guy in the video is some brand of European...  think he meant 800C?  That would certainly change the effect, I would think.

Either way, I've been "getting away" with not doing it for my blades and it's apparent that there's something missing in my application.  So, I'll just remove that from the tutorial and we can all be done with it

Gambatte!!
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That makes much more sense to me. Its very common to do multiple cycles of Normalizing which would be right around 800C for simple steels. You can certainly do good work without any preperatory heating/cooling cycles. For basic chisels you can simply grind Heat and quench and the tool will work just fine.

[Patrick Hastings]

Ford I knew not the crimes I have commited
I hope I havn't turned too many people into Talentless technical Zombies:)
Seriously speaking, I understand what your saying and in the very specific context you have specified I totally agree. I still think that helping to refine the Tutorial making it more accurate and simplified was a good thing. The idea was to impove the Tutorial. The tutorial becomes the source of information not my posts directly. I thought Mr. Skelton would benifet on multiple fronts being a Knife maker. I would love to talk more of the philosophy of this with you, but I am so pressed for time right now. I look forward to meeting with you. I am sure we will have some great conversations.
Take care,
Patrick

[Jim Kelso]

Seems like two distinct viewpoints at work here. Hewing to the egalitarian nature of the forum, there should be room for all. Some will be interested in metallurgy and some not(to varying degrees). I do have to say that it's not necessary to understand the molecular processes to get a kick-a** functional tool, but if you're intrigued by that knowledge, more power to you. It's a mysterious and fascinating world. However, I wouldn't want a neophyte to get discouraged thinking they had to grasp all the theory just to get out of the tool-hardening gate.

[Dick Bonham]

I am so mechanically inept I can barely use a drill press so I do everything simple, by hand and eye. Some times people tend to turn art into rocket science....however, if there was no rocket science there would be no rockets. Hmmmmm.
Dick

[kristopher skelton]

wow.... and I though voicing an opinion on fixed blades versus folders was a contentious subject....

Well, as I said I would, I removed the whole issue of heating to whatever temp, quenching briefly and repeating. I'm really not that interested in making austentite or martensite or whateverisite.... unless there's AstonMartin-site in which case I really would enjoy a new British sports car I just want knives that cut without chipping or rolling an edge and chisels that chisel away metal, wood or whatever.