[Karl Carvalho]

Aloha,

I am "drop kicking" (American football term) this thread to continue our discussion on mokume. Though it is not usually my way to do things, I feel a critical mass building. (Besides, the epoxy piece took some stuffing out of me.) I am not any kind of expert, but with new members like Sjoerd coming aboard, I expect we can have a great discussion. I'll just parrot a few words from the recently mentioned texts on the subject so that viewers new to the subject can get a foothold.

Mokume gane refers to a metals technique from Japan with possible earlier origins on mainland Asia. It translates to "eye of the wood grain metal", or something like that. Developed 300 or so years ago, it is associated with Japanese swords in it's early form. Other forms developed later, such as document cases and spectacular vases.
Basically, layers of non-ferrous metals (pure and alloyed) are fused into a single layer. Subsequently, various layers are exposed to create unique patterns and textures. Besides the traditional methods of making this material (which suffered from poorly researched accounts early on), newer "high tech" methods are being used to incorporate metals like platinum, aluminum and stainless steel.

Karl

[DanM]

Karl,

Yes the yahoo mokume group has been very slow for a while.but there are not too many people besides Phil Baldwin,James Binnion and myself who have made large volumes of precious metal mokume.

[wunderlich]

Hi,

this is a foto of a ring I made some time ago. The mokume is made of low tin content bronze and copper.


It was fused in an open flame (jewellers mouth blow pipe). Of course the size of such a billet is very limited.
And as I said in the horimono thread: the contrast is subtile.
Karl

[Sjoerd Brink]

hi there from a cloudy Holland,

There is a mokume forum in Austria http://forum.unikatschmuck.at/ , it's in german and it's kind of quite right now. Jim Binnion has a brief but clear explanation of the process on his website. For those who are interested in a more detailed description I suggest to buy some books.
-Mokume gane, a comprehensive study by Steve Midgett, ISBN 0-9651650-7-8
-Mokume gane by Ian Ferguson, ISBN 0-7136-6156-9
-some of the Santa Fe Symposium books (Rio Grande)
-internet! although there is a lot of crap out there on the subject. I've used the 2 books as a guideline and picked the parts that worked for me. Start with a combination such as copper/fine silver. It gives a good contrast and is easy to work. Write down as much as you can, from start to finish. After a while you'll have your own referencebook. You'll need it!
Making larger objects requires an enormous amount of time and effort. Not many mokume artists have access to hydraulic presses and/or powerhammers. Most guys and girls only have hammer and anvil, and as time is money, the oldschool way is simply too expensive. Besides that forging some of the traditional japanese alloys is like entering a complete new level of communicating with metal. It's crucial to understand what you're dealing with. Below is a picture of a study in copper,sterling silver, shibuichi, shiro shibuichi and kuro shibuichi. It taught me a few things

Sjoerd

This post has been edited by Janel: 06 June 2007 - 11:49 AM

[Karl Carvalho]

Aloha

This is great! I am really happy to see this thread start up and have you folks all here. This subject is a passion for me (and I suspect for many others).

Dan
Uh-oh. My big, fat faux pas. Did not realize that you were that Dan. Apologies for invoking the mythical coolness factor. (Should have realized the connection from the link to TCP.) I'm sure your expertise will be called upon often.
btw - Do you know Mike Sakmar? He was kind enough to sell me some very good scraps when I started playing around with mokume. A lot of knife makers here use his material for their work.

Ford
How could anybody take umbrage at one with a mug like that? (Did anyone ever tell you that Corbin Berenson looks just like you? ) My efforts proceed at a snails pace. Here is the first thing I ever made (last year).

This is suppose to be a 7-11 crab (Carpilius maculatus), or in Hawaiian, alakuma. My direction is toward creatures and things in nature. Tidepooling and birding for endemic and endangered species (We are the endangered species capital of the world. A poor distinction, but a future marketing strategy. ) are my inspirations.

Karl
You did that with lung power? I like it. I agree with Ford that subtle can be good. Hope to see more. (Just don't expose us to that translated Japanese text again. I think I lost some gray matter. )

Sjoerd
Thanks for showing up. Very nice piece. (What am I saying? It's great. Beyond anything that I am capable of .) Hope to see more from you also.

Karl

[Janel]

Crab? It looks like a Minnesota Wood Tick, except that it has too many legs for a tick! Thank you for starting this thread, Karl.

[wunderlich]

Karl Carvalho, on Jun 6 2007, 09:47 PM, said:

You did that with lung power? .... (Just don't expose us to that translated Japanese text again. I think I lost some gray matter. )

Hi Karl, yes it was made with lung power. Soon I will post some pics of that rather traditional soldering method. (I guess it is not that common in the States). Fusing mokume that way has some drawbacks - I am working on a gas fired kiln for better results.

Sorry again for the machine translation. Hope you feel better meanwhile-but I think its interesting anyway- the pattern developement in particular. (He made a replica of a Shoami piece).



Goede dag Sjoerd,

it is really nice vessel you made there. Was it hand raised or raised with hydraulic press?
How did you achieve the fine greenish patina on the Shibuichi?

Karl

[Sjoerd Brink]

Ford, thank you but I only used the small cup( Ø75mm, height 25,5mm ) to find out how the stacking order would work after patination and as it is a double laminate, what effect the difference in layer thickness would give me. One coarse looking piece of metal. No balance, no tension.
Your friend Wayne creates beautiful pieces. Besides on the nihon-kogeikai site there isn't any information on the subject of shibori, unless one has an interest in textiles

Karl C, your alakuma does look like a bug. If you want a subtle combination you could think of silver/iron. In their natural state it's realy nice to look at. The most subtle combination I've made consists of 316L/ 304/copper. Etch the 304 and you'll end up with a very light grey, a slightly dull grey and very thin black lines. It's not the easiest one to make but it can have a strong graphical endresult.
Hint on your "unability": nonsense! before you start alloying draw a diagram, top(fine silver) to bottom(copper), left to right(amount of layers). think of the desired endresult and put the dots where you want them. The landscape you end up with can be anything from the Alps to a nice downslope countryroad.

Hallo Karl W, and a gutentag to you too. The little bugger was handraised, not a funny thing to do so for flattening the bottom I used my press. The time spent on raising compared to that of pressforming is unbelievable. But as I said before it was a study piece.
The picture doesn't do justice to the patination, it's actually more grey/blueish. The patina solution I've used is the one descripted by Eitoku Sugimori, kin-furubi 2, page 85. I added a small amount of vinegar.
Lungpower. I only use it for the delicate operations. I got rid of the oxygenbottles and bought an oxygenconcentrating device, used by people with breathing problems. It's powerful enough to melt copper.
As for the gasfired forge you might take to look at Ron Reil's site

cheers, Sjoerd

[wunderlich]

Dank U wel Sjoerd for the explainations.

For the gas forge I have someting much smaller in mind. (a altered version of Mr. Migetts mini kiln- Using a normal burner for hard soldering bit with Kaowool and ceramic coating) I am somehow a low tech kind of guy. (Sometimes using pumpdrills -Dreul in German and such like old fashioned stuff).

Some random thoughts on the purpose of mokume:
I am trying to use mokume to enhance the general look of a piece. It is thought to be like the ornamental background in a Klimt painting for instance. I feel the vogue for mokume nowadays (esp. in Germany) is very much fixed on technique and not much on creating atmosphere. (just my opinion on the Pforzheim exhibition)
What are your (TCP-members) thoughts on this?

Karl

[Sjoerd Brink]

Aloha Karl

I should have been more accurate on the stainless combination. I've used 1) 1,5mm 316L sheet, 2) 1mm 304 and 3) 1mm copper. Stacking order 1-3-2-3-1-3-2 etc. ending with 1. Sheetsize is 45x38mm, but that depends on the size of your torque plates.
If you're seeking for a challenge this one will gladly fulfil your desire.
I use an electric kiln, set at 915 degrees Celcius for 5 hours (torque assembly is in a metalfoil bag with preheated charcoal). After the heating I let the foil bag cool inside the kiln to about 550 deg.C., take it out and aircool. I'm having a hard time not to take it out of the bag. When it's finally reached roomtemp take it out, examine it and grind of the edges. For squeezing down the billet I use a propane torch and a hydraulic press. By the time it's about 7mm thick the press has done the best it could so now you're up for the real thing, hammer and anvil. Forge hot. Beware, the laminate fights back. Be sure no one is around for you will swear. A lot. If you have no access to a press you could try making the stack with thinner sheet and smaller sizes.
When I'm forging a tough billet I always have an old hss drillrod lying around. By the time I think I've had it with the billet I forge the rod, and hey, the mokume seems to be the kind one.
Good luck!

Sjoerd

[Sjoerd Brink]

Hallo Karl, yes, there is a distinct tendency in Germany towards the technical dealings with mokume. I participated in the exhibition and in review I have my doubts about that. I was happy to be invited, worked like hell but ultimately my pieces were cold, technical. I tried to put in a little crude humor in them by turning the pendants into medals. Oldworld tech, oldworld decorations, newworld application??? That question wasn't picked up by anyone. Maybe next time I"ll shout it. I think in the end Hafner is the lucky one.

With your thoughts on atmosphere you've hit the jackpot. Wether a piece is partially or entirely mokume makes no difference to me, the important thing is that it's the piece you want it to be. Does it work? Why did I do this, why that. I've had a talk with Janel on her frogs. For me they work. They're never dull to me, they put a smile on my face every time I take a look at them. So again to me the DoesItWork question is important.

Sjoerd

[Jeff Pringle]

Years ago, I forged a 'snake in the garden' bracelet in sterling/fine silver mokume, but since then my mokume is mostly rings and ferrules.
Mokume's potential for enhancing atmosphere is definitely underutilized, almost always it is a texture or graphic element only, at least in contemporary jewelry/knife metalwork.

[toscano]

ford hallam, on Jun 7 2007, 08:34 AM, said:

I will stick my neck out here and say, that I do think that in general, the objects that are so often seen that utilize mokume ( in the West, at least ) often appear quite mechanical. The other thing that I perceive is that often the piece is solely a canvas for a mokume patterned metal, by this I mean it serves no other aesthetic function than to show off a clever bit of metal technique.

I will have to agree with Ford on this one. As beautiful as mokume can be, it is too often the focal point.
In fact, Ford said it so well, I'll say nothing else.

There are of course exceptions (like Jeff's bracelet - nice work, mate - and Wayne's work - thanks for the link Ford -, to give but two examples) that go against that trend, but a trend it is...

-t (the one with no face)

[Karl Carvalho]

Aloha Guys,

Wow. I go to bed in my isolated little timezone and wake to find this sucker firing off. Great.

Bug. Mite. Well I guess you can call him that. More like a nymph as an adult can grow to have an 8 inch shell. That will keep you out of the woods.

Karl
Your posts anticipated my next question to you. Don't tell anybody, but I solder bond too. Besides the fact that my wife commandeered my new digital electric kiln, there is a reason for that. Explanation to come. Question is - what kind of solder did you use? It seems to blend well with bronze as to color.

Sjoerd

Thanks for the encouragement and the advice.. You obviously have much experience. I'm trying to keep up with the technical side. The crab was just something soldered, forged and formed from a tiny bit in an hour or so.
I am a student of Gene Pijanowski. I say this with the deepest humility. He very recently told me that he was considering coming out of semi-retirement. And I start a new class with him TONITE! I am so stoked. One of the first things I hope to make is Japanese "native copper" using a recipe from a generous member (thanks Jim!). Anyway, Gene can be old school. So what I'm try to do is off the wall. Explanation to come.

Ford
You and the others are singing my song. Not to offend anyone, but the state of mokume seems to be an endless manipulation of pattern. This has obviously been recognized by you and the others (Hey Tassos). I think this is an offshoot of the fabrication process, which takes so much energy. I was warned about the allure of fabrication, and advised to look past that. Sjoerd mentioned something about that.
If you review Midgett's second text, you will see only two creatures. A frog and a snake. No fancy patterns; just two or three layers. Easily done with solder for now. There is so much inspiration in nature out there. I have some shots of koi feeding that I will post soon. The variety of color includes golden bronzes, hence my interest in bronze metal. And your tutorial on scales is very timely. Together with Jim's on inlay (the owl), it's starting to come together.
btw - Met Krenov when he was teaching at the College of the Redwoods in Ft. Bragg. He is a friend of my hanai family up there. He is a lot shorter and crankier than you would expect.

Jeff
Did not forget about you. Really like your snake. My kind of subject.

Karl

[DanM]

Karl,

I have never meet Mike Sakmar,i believe he lives in Michigan and i don't travel much.

As far as using solder,i find no problems with people making mokume with solder rather than fusing the sheets. i have used an IT-90 or IT-85 silver solder on projects and people cannot see a solder line with a 10X loupe.

I find form and function sometimes more important than technical work. I have seen a photo of a mokume octapus where the simple pattern made the octapus look like it had just been removed from the ocean. Another piece was a vase that had just a few spots of pattern against a solid copper background.Sometimes simple is better than more pattern on objects.