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Elisa

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About Elisa

  • Rank
    Member
  • Birthday 09/25/1983

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  • Gender
    Female
  • Location
    Siena, Italy
  1. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Hi Fred and Thomas. Sorry, I never wrote any thing about the course. For personal reasons such as my last relocation I wasn't able to do it. It have been definitively a good experience. The students were just four. What I´m more pleased in is that my students were bewitched by the way how the technique works. Even if two of them were a little impatient in the beginning, bored by making the texture, as they uderstud the reason for that long work they loved the technique. I will let work my students on smaller pieces next time, at least at the beginning. In this almost first teaching experience I could discover immediately some things which I have to do better the next time. I could verify soon that it´s not predicted to transmit the “how to”. It wasn´t easy for example to let them keep the right position of the chisel and to explain how deeply one should clean the metal before making the patina. They worked first on brass, than on shibuichi and shakudo. They fixed their plates on the pitch. My first and biggest mistake was to let work two of them on pitch bases which wasn't heavy enough. The other two students where working much better and I couldn't understand why. As long as I gave my 7 kg pitch bowl to one of the students to try, finally she was able to make deep grooves without effort and without bending the plate. Fortunately I could quickly organize other heavier pitch bowls. I learned that I should try every tool before make it available to the students. Next time I will also be a bit more insistent about the cleaning step of the metal. In most of their pieces the color came out uneven after the patina. Any way I will find things to do better every time I repeate this experience. Now I'm refining some insruments for the next workshop which will be in April, obviously also the pitch bases! It's nice, Fred, that you are preparing at the same time as me your next nunome-zogan course. Finally the students did a grate work. Here you can see some pictures. Apart one all the students comes from a contemporary jewellery school, this explanes way they made a lot of abstract designes... In any case I'm proud for what they did in such a short time. best, Elisa shakudo; brass; shibuichi. shibuichi shakudo. uneven color. shakudo; shibuichi brass Shakudo. In this detail you can see how the silver foil came off in some points just during the patina process. Iron; brass; shibuichi shibuichi.
  2. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Hi Fred and Thomas, It's nice to read your massages. Thank you Fred for your wishes!! I was able to read them in time, during the course days. Sorry, I wasn't able to replay earlyer. This moth have been so full of things and I'm still in a rush, just one week more and I can relax. I would be glad to tell you about the experience, I have also some picture to show you. I will be back soon, after the first week-end of October. A presto!! Elisa
  3. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Hi Thomas, sorry I didn't log in since more than a month. Yes I tryed it. I damaged the first two shaping them on the fast grinding wheel, and even putting the cisel every second in cold water the top changed color and it was ruined. After I did it only with the grinding wheel wich goes with water, it's much slower but the result is perfect. I did some larger pointed and some smaller pointed ones, those steel blanks are very helpful. At the same time I got also some tagane blanks from komokin (Japan) and finished them the same way. I'm very soddisfacted actually, it's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for asking me and for connecting me with that guy. All the best, Elisa
  4. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Hi Fred, thank you for your help. Today I wrote an email to the address of Comokin, thanks for sending me the links. If I find a way to comunicate with them and they will send me the tools it would be perfect. Otherways I can aks my mother to look for the tools at Allcraft, she will be in NY around the 15th of September. At least for the hammers... The video is very interesting. Best, Elisa
  5. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Wow, Thomas! what a coincidence, the steel arrived today. He did send me 14 of those amazing pieces!! I can't wait to shape and to try them. Any way I have to wait a couple of weeks, until then some other things have the priority. I'll tell you know when I have done some. Thank you for having arranged that for me! I will give a feedback to Fabien immediately.. Elisa
  6. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Please Ford, if you can send me the link for the video of Satsuo Ando, I think I havn't seen it! You told that you ordered the blue tagane blanks directly from Komokin in Japan right? How? Did you order the tools just through their Japanese web site? This is very interesting for me, until now I asked japanese friends to send me the tools but I can't ask them every time for this kind favour. Ordering directly from komokin would be the solution! You told also about Allcraft in New York but I couldn't find any web site to check their selection -I'm mostly interested in the HSS blanks and the tipical hammer, used also for uchi-dashi, named Otafku. I attached an image below- If Tevel Herbstman of Allcraft sells those tools may be the shop can make shippings over seas as well... Elisa
  7. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Thank you Fred for the pictures from your collection, very beautiful pieces. Especially the two boxes with bamboo representations and the first box with houses and Mount Fuji in the back. I love also the box with the quite geometrical pattern (10th photo from above), do you think the metals are copper, silver, shibuichi and shakudo? And is this the patchwork inlay named Hagiawase zougan in Japan? I would love to learn the relief inlay technique (Niku zougan). I will look for opportunities to learn it in Japan. If my finances and the time allows me to go I will surely do it. If somebody knows about courses in Europe or in the States it's interesting for me too. In Japan I have seen objects of a special beauty decorated with this technique. Elisa
  8. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Thomas, sorry me for this long delay!! I came back just two days ago from my holidays. I was in one of my favorite areas in Italy, the Aosta valley, my father was born there. So I'm a little bit sad to be already back but it's nice to see your messages here About your friend, he did!! I don't know if he already have send me the steel but he asked me for the address. I'll let you know as soon I have the steel and how it is to work with it. Fred, I'm very happy about your excitement about this topic. I hope so that interesting discussions will come out. Thank you for your intention to share what you know. First of all I have to tell you that I havn't learned from Satsuo Ando but from Noboru Ando. Hope this is not to disappointing for you. Sorry, It's my mistake: I'm so used to call him Ando that I missed to specify the full name. Noboru Ando is a teacher at the Hiko Mizuno college of Jewelry in Tokyo. He is a excellent teacher, very careful to each student. He pays much attention to details, like how to hold a tool, how to clean the metal surface, how to treat the pitch and so on.. He is a very kind person and fortunately I kept kontact with him, sometimes I can ask him thinks, I feel very lucky for this. Even if mostly I have to be patient and wait a while since I get an answer. For Nunome Zougan, Noboru Ando let us use the blue tipped blanks of Komokin (or other companies). Now I'm sure that those are HSS blanks. You are right, that's what I learned too: we used the grinding stone to give the first rawest shape to the point of the blank and after only stone, no file. We used the red tipped blanks only to make some tagane for Uchi-dashi (japanese repousse), those chisels had to be quenched after shaping. All the best, Elisa
  9. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Hi Thomas, some days ago I've sent you my email address via PM, have you received it? Cheers, Elisa
  10. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Hi Dan, I use the gas bottle with welding torch to quench steel. The same I use for annealing and soldering. I would like to try this W1 as well, just to draw a comparision between the different materials. I'll find out if in Italy it is sold with an other name and which one. Could be that it is just the common steel which is sold in our tool shops. Thanks, Elisa
  11. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Thank you Dan for this information. Thomas, this is a grate idea... Do you know if and how much I would pay for some of these pieces of steel? around 6 mm diameter and 10 cm long would be fine. In the mean time I will ask in our tool and machine shops which kind is the steel they sell in bars. Cheers, Elisa
  12. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Yes Thomas, I will ask him about that. Hope to get an answere soon! Elisa
  13. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Hi Thomas, I'm really grateful. That's exactly what I wanted to know. About Ando's chisel I'm quite sure that we are talking about a tool made in iron. As I wanted to order those unfinished chisels through a Japanese goldsmith, a friend of mine, choosing them from a catalog, I was told that it's not about steel, as I thought in the beginning, but about a really hard Iron which is not supposed to be quenched and which you can't shape just with the file. Then I remembered Ando sensei telling me that this chisel was made in Iron differently from the chisels we made for Uchi-dashi (japanese repousse technique), which we (students) did our self shaping them with the file. That's why I'm still convinced that it's about iron but it's not to be excluded that I'm wrong... I will write this question to Ando who can clear that easily up. I need to know it as well since I'm going to make more of this chisels, if it's just a kind of steel I don't need to order them from Japan. In any case GRAZIE! I appreciate very much your helpful explanation about stones... Elisa
  14. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Hi Dan and Thomas, 

Thanks for the suggestions! I will surely use the India to exercise in keeping the right angle.
 Actually I have an india stone, It's the stone I used to get the cutting angle of the cisel. but the surface came out really too rough. That's why I used very fine sand papers with oil after the india stone. As I wrote about this to my teacher Ando from Japan he told me that I should use an arkansas in stead of finest sand paper.
 The original cisel (Mekiri-tagane) he did for me in front of my eyes was dann this way. the metal he used was very hard iron which doesn't need to be quenched, I remember well that after he shaped the cisel on the grinding wheel he used Arcansas to sharpen it. The tip had a perfectly smooth and shiny surface and a really sharp cutting edge. It changed after the accident and after the try to fix it my self. The cisel I made recently my self, here in Italy, never had this perfect tip. I made it in steel and I had to quench it because I couldn't find here the kind of iron which is used in Japan. 
I'm quite sure that this depends first of all on how I manage to keep the right angle (still not good) and, second, on which kind of stone or paper I am using.
 I think I will buy the belgian bench stone, but I would like to order an Arkansas as well. If somebody knows wich kind of Arkansas is suitable for this purpose I would be glad to receive suggestions.

 I have checked also on ebay where I found this italian page for example: 



http://www.ebay.it/sch/items/___W0QQ_nkwZQ7barkansas%20pietraQ7d?clk_rvr_id=350030597399&MT_ID=63&crlp=13715466555_872&tt_encode=raw&geo_id=91&keyword=arkansas+pietra&adgroup_id=2869679115 But I see somebody is offering the stone for 13.-€ and somebody else is offering may be the duble mesure for 80.- €, this big difference of price does confuse me, are the two stones diferent??! Karl Fischer in germany for example sells on internet just 'white' arkansas, Dictum haves a black one.
 Is some body able to tell me which is the difference between the colors and how important the difference is?
 Finally I would like to know which kind of arkansas is the best for sharpeing the cutting edge of very hard iron or steel cisels. I attach a couple of photos of Ando's cisel and mine... Till soon, Elisa The first cisel is made by Ando, the second is made by me Ando's Mine Mine
  15. Question About Nunome-Zougan

    Hi Thomas, I'm am just wondering about which kind of stone I should buy. Is the Belgian bench stone a water stone? I heared often that oil stones as Arkansas are very good for thise purpose. But even in this case I have seen that there are different kinds of Arkansas, white, black, softer, harder... I don't know exactly what to choose. What do you think is the difference between a belgian stone and an arkansas and theirs effects? Tanks for your suggestions. Elisa
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