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dante lopez

help for riusha netski

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Guest Clive

Dante.. just one thought..

 

If Galileo Galilei and everybody else after him followed the advice of your acupuncturist for fear of upsetting the church we'd still believe the the earth was the center of the universe. :P

 

Like I said repeatedly in my previous posts.. my critique was given in the context of the original question.. and I repeatedly emphasised my desire not to cause offence.

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natasha by the way beautiful carving is great piece ,and the process is for a beg help thanks very mooch , so it have to have a structure that resist the stress is the primary concept ,no?or the design ,the use for a drill, can bee replace for drills in the design ?is this correct?

:P

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OK, the best recipe of Ryusa: Take a round piece, drill two holes! I don't know how well will be such Ryusa, its design and can we call it ART, but it'll be VERY functional! :P

I just wanted to show steps, thicker or thinner - the question of tast!

Good luck!

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Guest Clive
are you saying that earth is not the center of the universe ????jajajajajajajajajaja.

.I agree whit you on that of the critics

 

:P

 

Honest critique is indeed a very difficult subject for a lot of western contemporary artists to handle.. I once attended the workshop of a group of Japanese netsuke carvers and was immediately struck by the nature of the discussion and that such a discussion just simply would not be possible with a lot of my western contemporaries amongst whom there seems to be no ability to appreciate the difference between criticism and critique.. its odd because most westerners believe that respect and thoughtfulness motivates their attitude but I rather suspect most simply don't give honest critique because they can't handle honest critique been given to themselves.

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to me critics is good ,wend I ask for a critic of my work I like to bee tear in to pieces ,because I get to like my pieces so mooch that I get blind and don't see beyond my nose ,and this cain of help me to come back to heart and look for those things in the next's project, after seeing this points of view I can clearly see a beg change in my next's works to many things to considerate ,before only see the center piece like the most important part and the rest was room field,now I star to see all the other parts of my work like all are the central piece and I know that's come because of this forum expressions and opinions ,thanks to you all,love to all :P

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Sometimes it's Clive... sometimes it's Natasha... this time it's Dante who makes me smile. Jajajajaja!

 

(What's the name of that one guy that's wearing netsuke these days?)

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Guest Ford
I once attended the workshop of a group of Japanese netsuke carvers and was immediately struck by the nature of the discussion and that such a discussion just simply would not be possible with a lot of my western contemporaries amongst whom there seems to be no ability to appreciate the difference between criticism and critique.. its odd because most westerners believe that respect and thoughtfulness motivates their attitude but I rather suspect most simply don't give honest critique because they can't handle honest critique been given to themselves.

 

Interesting, Clive

 

This has been exactly my experience in Japan too. Comments about my own my work has invariably been completely honest...no "sparing my feelings" at all. Artists simply say what they think, it's considered and honest feed-back and means you're being treated as an adult and a serious artist intent on being true to your art. If you only get meaningless niceties in response then they don't think you're worth talking to. If I ever tell someone their work is "nice"...that would be me being as rude as possible :P

 

All meaningful communication entails a risk. If you are prepared to speak your own truth, from the core of who you are, you run a risk of being rejected by those who don't like what you have to offer, or understand you. If we don't take that risk though, how can we expect any sort of meaningful communication with anyone? Life is far too precious, and short, to waste time with platitudes. Not to speak the truth, is in my view, the ultimate denial of life. I don't want to live in a bubble, protected from anything that may irritate my fragile ego-centric existence. I want to engage with all life has to offer...and the most significant aspect of that is other people. ;)

 

Keep it real if your art means anything to you.

 

Namaste,

ford

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I agree with both Clive and Ford. This seems to be a problem on most forums I belong to. A discussion starts or a request for comments is put out there and it gets cut before it gets started.

 

This discussion seems civil and informative. A private discussion is useless and seems to defeat the purpose of meaningful exchange of ideas and information. Personally, I look forward to and enjoy the posts that Clive and Ford participate in due to their thoughtful and honest responses. Let's not forget that both also are experienced and well versed in the execution and history of the art form.

 

Mark

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Aloha Clive,

 

First I had to wrap my head around the idea of actually talking to Masatoshi. Then I recalled reading criticism somewhere, that his more elaborate pieces were too fragile and did not conform to "accepted" convention (what do I know). So I revisited images of his work with the vision of an old Japanese man twirling his creations around his shop. All seemed to pass my imaginary test. I learned something. Thanks.

 

Karl

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As artists, particularly carvers, gain technical expertise, we often tend to want to push the limits of the medium and show off a bit, perhaps to the detriment of good form. This is a natural evolution, and helps one learn one's capeabilities, as well as one's limits. The best artists throughout history have followed this path, and usually arrive at a compromise between good form and technical merit some time later in their career. In The Art of Netsuke Carving, Masatoshi criticized his own work, particularly the work that he did in the middle of his career, as being a bit too elaborate to be used as netsuke.

 

Natasha, this is by no means a critique of your work, just an observation of how artists often develop.

 

Discussions like these, in the open, are the only way in which we can develop and learn to critique our own work. In my own personal experience, the greatest advances that I have made in my work have been from people, both those who know what they are talking about and novices, telling me very frankly what they think. The first time this happened to me I was quite upset, having heard nothing but pleasantries and kind remarks about my work. The person I was showing my piece to was a Norwegian-trained master gunsmith, with about 50 years of experience, and he went up one side and down the other of the piece that I presented to him. I went away quite upset, but thought about what he said carefully and objectively, and realized that he was right. I also realized that it was nothing personal, he was just trying to help me, in his own special way. A little rude perhaps, but dead on. He eventually took me on as his first and only apprentice, and we got along just fine, once I learned how he was taught, and how he expressed himself.

 

As I get older, I notice that fewer people honestly critique my work. I am not quite sure why, but I miss it very much.

 

Phil

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thanks for all your opinions I have completely change my perspective about carving, and every thing is behind ,(so now I become a butcher instead jajajajajajajajajajaj)I seriously think that's the way to grow and get vetter ,if nobody as any objection, I will like that in every step of the way that this piece will go be very critical in every aspect of it ,to me is like a dream come true to have such masters lead my way ,and for free jajajajajajajajaja ( hope there's no charge ),for me is a little difficult to draw first because I all way go direct from the stone , I design as I go,so this put my brain in different way, lest see

the circle in the back is the himotoshi (I think that's the name) and it have to be hollow so it gets transparency

well like this as to evolve here are some pictures of the work in progress.

:P

post-1637-1259441495.jpg

post-1637-1259441521.jpg

post-1637-1259441537.jpg

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Guest Ford

Dante,

 

I think you will find that many of us also work "directly from the stone"...so to speak. Of course there are preparatory drawings and concepts in mind but these are never absolutely fixed...we must allow the work, as it grows and evolves, to provide us with at least a little "guidance" ;)

 

My own process is often to begin with only the vaguest of conceptual ideas. Mostly in terms of colours and feelings.

 

I like your little frog idea very much and can almost already see the delicate translucency of it's body in polished jade. If I'm honest though, and now we all have to be :P , I confess I find the bamboo ( ?) a bit too stiff and angular for this composition. I wonder if a different type of plant growth might not be more fitting.

 

Namaste,

 

ford

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Dante, good luck with this project.

 

If you decide to keep the body of the frog, it might be an idea to have the himotoshi hole behind its body and more towards the middle of the piece. Reasons are, that the cord knot would be hidden from view and if you leave the himotoshi where it is, the netsuke wouldn't be wearable, but would flip up as the inro and cord pulled on it.

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Guest Ford

Hi Dante,

 

your little frogs have inspired me to finally have a go at doing something similar myself :) . Of course, with metal I can't get the translucency you achieve with jade but metal can bring other qualities to the fore.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing your own creation evolve.

 

regards,

 

ford

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Dante. I would suggest banana leaf or bromeliae. It is the usual environment in which I used to find tree frogs in the jungle in any case and their weight would often bend the leaf around in a pleasant and elegant way... in fact my sketchbook is filled with ideas which orbit around tree frogs and banana leaves.

 

And for what is worth and not meaning any disrespect to anyone. I am glad these discussions stay in the open. If one cannot see beyond our own noses and gracefully accept the beneficial fruit of adult discussion then it is best to wrap yourself in cotton wool and live that way... problem is, that cotton wool catches fire easily.

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hi thanks Hyllyn, I was thinking on something like that ,but then I remember that the standers I try to follow is the japanese ,so I have to stick to a japanese concept or environment,so it have to be whit japanese flowers or fruits,that's why I use in the begging the bamboo ,so first I have to make it very japanese concept ,then I make wherever I like ,that's the way my brain prose's info jajajajajajajaja,maybe the bamboo or other plant but from japan ,as the info reed netsuke as a historical concept ,tradition and art from japan ,but if I am rung tell me please any other comments are welcome :P:)

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hooooo ,good can you post pictures of the idea , it might help , I am very anxious to star carving the jade ,but have not bring the idea to the paper , but I will post some drawings soon .

:):P

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jajajajajajajaj ,like I say I am a totally ignorant in this field jajajaja so they are naturally not import ,if brumelias are from japan THAT WILL BE THE RIGHT CONCEPT,I like the idea mmmmmmmm! thanks for the tip ,can any one just confirm that brumelias are naturally from japan ?please and if possible send pictures of thanks very mooch

:lol::P:)

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