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Janvier Transfer Engraving Machine


Guest ford hallam

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Guest ford hallam

Hi all,

 

a long shot probably but does anyone know anything substantial about the Janvier Transfer Engraving Machine? I know what it is and can do but would like to learn a little more of the actual mechanics or even if they are still commercially available. Perhaps what antique/second hand ones might cost....quite a bit I imagine.

 

any and all help much appreciated,

 

thanks, Ford

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Guest ford hallam

Thanks fellas, for the help.

 

I just thought with a machine like this one could really make some BIG money :P , I mean, the mint just seems to make more whenever they need any extra. :angry:

 

cheers, Ford

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There is a copying machine that goes back a bit invented by Benjamin Cheverton, if you Google it you can find a picture .

I have a photocopy out of a book by Carson Ritchie , it could do 3-D larger or smaller and was not very highly thought of, too easy........

 

I do casting for a sculptor /medallist who has worked for the Royal Mint in the UK (look for IRB under the Queens head).

He said that they used to have half a dozen and scrapped them when they went computerised, they sold them off and a friend of his bought one cheap.

 

I quizzed him about what they looked like and all he could remember, not being mechanically minded ,was that they had a lot of cogs involved . He said that you got a much better result than you do now with CAD/CAM. I bet the Science Museum would have one.

 

Regards Tim.

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I quizzed him about what they looked like and all he could remember, not being mechanically minded ,was that they had a lot of cogs involved . He said that you got a much better result than you do now with CAD/CAM. I bet the Science Museum would have one.

 

Regards Tim.

 

Interesting that the old way got the better results. funny how that pops up now and then!!!!

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Thanks fellas, for the help.

 

I just thought with a machine like this one could really make some BIG money ;) , I mean, the mint just seems to make more whenever they need any extra. :angry:

 

cheers, Ford

 

I think you've got it backwards, Ford! It looks like this machine makes small money out of BIG! A good government project - take a million dollars (pounds) and make it do what a regular person could get done for 50 bucks (quid)... :P

 

On a more serious, note, you might ask the machine question on these engraving forums. Some of the greybeards over there might know more about it.

http://www.engravingforum.com/

http://www.igraver.com/forum/

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Guest ford hallam

Thanks Tom,

 

for that link. I'll have a little poke around. I'm just interested in the mechanics of how these things work. I don't actually have anything that I'd want to use one for but Rene Lalique used one to produce the ivory figures and portraits he incorporated into his jewellery so I was intrigued to see what it could do.

 

Regards, Ford

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Hi Ford,

Being a medalist (among other things) I have seen several Janvier machines carve dies. The machines are very large and expensive. They are also designed to do medals or coins. What you need is a three dimensional pantograph. They are simple and do a very nice job. I have only seen one carve gunstocks and it worked very well.

Dick

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Hi Ford,

I found a picture of the Cheverton machine, I think it would only be OK with fairly large items.post-153-1201123372.jpg

 

I don't know if you all would approve but if I have to do an opposite handed item when I have carved a wax, I use a Roland 3D scanner and Carving machine. It does the roughing out and I can then hand finish. Buy now while stocks last , they are going to stop making the scanners, I wouldn't be without mine , It saves me loads of time.

 

regards Tim.

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Hi Ford,

Being a medalist (among other things) I have seen several Janvier machines carve dies. The machines are very large and expensive. They are also designed to do medals or coins. What you need is a three dimensional pantograph. They are simple and do a very nice job. I have only seen one carve gunstocks and it worked very well.

Dick

 

I know three people that have Machines like this. Three dimensional mills that use a pattern to guide the mill head. They can change the scale without electronics. I have only seen one of them run. They are all fairly old and basicallly retired, the machines that is but all still work. I personnally am interested in a CNC conversion setup for tooling and machine work for various hobbies of mine. I want to build all sort of machines. You can get a some nice mill set ups with high resolutions stepper motors, complete with computer and software for $10-12K these days. Shop Task has an interesting machine for the hobbiest. It is made in china, but the customer support is american and unsurpassed. Their machines are in so much demand that they will buy them back even years later for original purchase value less shipping (assumeing they are in good shape). Haveing the lathe built in saves space if you are lacking. Good hobbiest tools. I think I could do a lot with one and the prices are not bad at all. I ramble on.

Patrick

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Guest ford hallam

Hi Tim,

 

thanks for that image, it really makes the process quite clear. I reckon that based on that photo one might recreate something workable.....hmmm. I'd love to see a little of the process you use, the Roland 3D scanner, do you have some examples of the sort of result it produces?

 

Hi Patrick, that set up you describe sounds quite clever too, if a little pricey. I'll go and have a little poke around, thanks.

 

Thanks again all, for all the links and info.

 

cheers, Ford

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Hi Ford,

 

I am carving a model for a pair of earrings at the moment, I will take some photos as I go and post them.

The model I am working on is about 20mm diameter, the machine I have will go up to 6"x8" which is plenty big enough for me.

I thought when I first saw one that they would put hand carvers out of business, but unless your work is pretty geometric it is still easier to work by hand, and make alterations as you go.

 

regards Tim.

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Hi All,

 

Here are some pics of an earring wax I have been working on, I had already started on it when this subject came up so the first pic is fairly well roughed out.

post-153-1201813226.jpg

Next most of the detail put in and the back hollowed out.

post-153-1201813518.jpg

An angled view , the white dot is 10mm diameter.

post-153-1201813558.jpg

The wax is then put in the MDX-20 and fixed down with double sided tape. The pointer travels across in rows 1/20mm apart and is very gentle , you can scan plasticine without leaving marks. to scan this wax took about 15 hours, lower resolution is obviously faster.

post-153-1201814253.jpg

This is the machine ,about as big as a printer.

post-153-1201814360.jpg

A representation of the scan, note the double sided tape came out well!

post-153-1201814553.jpg

The 3D file is 'flipped' to give a mirror image and then cut in a block of wax, you cannot see what is happening, the swarf piles up as it cuts.

post-153-1201814739.jpg

the opposite handed wax with most of the wax dust brushed out.

post-153-1201815574.jpg

The base wax filed off with a coarse mill file .

post-153-1201814959.jpg

The pair together , ready to be carved to finish, and some carving tools to get into the crevices.

post-153-1201815069.jpg

I hope you don't disapprove too much, carving good opposite pairs by hand is not easy!

 

Any questions please ask,

 

regards Tim.

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Guest ford hallam

Amazing Tim,

 

lovely sequence of images and what a brilliant use of technology. No quibbles from me...just admiration.

Now...where can I get one? :unsure:

 

thanks, F

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Hi Ford,

 

Roland have dealers in South Africa,

 

http://www.rolanddg.co.za/index.html

 

They are discontinuing the two relevant models,so press for a deep discount, read more on the MDX users forum on Yahoo. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mdx_users/

 

The MDX-15 has a work area of 6"x4", the MDX-20 8"x6" In the UK they cost about £2000 and £3000 respectively full price new. A lot of jewellery CAD users started with one and then moved on to a better(and more expensive) one, you get what you pay for.

 

You could ask on http://3dcadjewelry.com/phpbb/index.php?si...bd9c267eea59b69 and see if anyone wants to sell one , they only come up on E-bay very occasionally.

 

There are attachments such as a more powerful(and quieter!) motor, see http://fourth-axis.com/

 

I just think they are an easy place to start, even though they have their shortcomings. It's a shame you have moved from the UK, you must have been just down the road from me.

 

regards Tim.

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Guest ford hallam

Hi Tim,

 

thanks for all that. They work out to about £1000 here...incredible! To be honest I would'nt use something like this in my artwork but it seems such an amazing piece of kit that I can't help thinking of so many jewellery related application that I am now seriously thinking about getting one.

 

I used to live in Chippenham, nr Bath. I was there for about 9 years...pity. I travel to London regularly though...I met up with Karl last November perhaps next time you could join us for a pint or 3 :unsure:

 

Thanks again, their site is bookmarked.

 

cheers, Ford

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Guest ford hallam

Hi Leon,

 

absolutely...anyone who can make it is more than welcome... ;) time and place to be advised. We may even be able to entice Clive out of his cave :unsure: . You'll probably understand my Afrikaans after a couple of pints too :blush:

 

cheers, Ford

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Guest ford hallam
Are you and Clive allowed out together?

 

not often....and only if we alert New Scotland Yard, MI5, the Fire Brigade and the local nurses college. :unsure:

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