Magic fish

[Guest Clive]

Writing about my approach to carving in another thread I said I don't generally do any graphic preparation but not liking anything to be set in stone, I've decided to create a carving based on a drawing I did recently. I've no idea how yet but will post pics as things progress. I've put this thread in the Tecniques forum as I imagine it with involve lots of tecnique.. as yet unknown or uninvented

 

Any suggestions would be welcome.

[Leon]

Any suggestions would be welcome.

 

So you want us to interpret your drawing, point out the characteristics and tell you what material to use, so you can make a masterpiece?

 

I like the idea, you lazy bstrd, but I stopped interpreting Modern Art long time ago.

 

Tell us more about your fish and his, or hers, mood and intentions.

[fkvesic]

Clive, I am grateful for all the the teaching material/processes you've put up and attention you've paid to this and the other threads in the past couple of days. It's the next best thing to having a netsuke-shi over my shoulder.

 

That includes Leon's contribution, too.

[Guest Clive]

My pleasure Freda.

 

All I was suggesting Leon it that while I was exploring and developing tecniques to capture the the essence of my fish, others should feel free to participate.. Yes of course any really good ideas I'll shamelessly steal from you especially.. but hey my karma runs over your dogma

 

Anyway.. I was thinking I might first do a few experiments involving fire.. burning some materials to achieve the vague outline of the fish... and then some experiments using acid further refine the shapes... I don't want it to looked carved but created rather by mysterious essential processes in some inner galaxy sort of place..

 

.. in fact I might call it First Fish.. starting from the title and work backwards.. Magic Fish was just my homage to the Paul Klee painting.

[Leon]

... to capture the the essence of my fish, others should feel free to participate..

That's where you lose me. Starting from a picture or certain species, I think I can jump in.

Interpreting the essence you intended is to hot for me. I'm a coward you know.

 

Do it anyway, sounds good. Makes me curious, that by itself (?) is valuable!

 

 

 

Thanks Freda, I enjoyd your replys too! ("Glue it" rofl!)

[Leon]

Or... maybe... do you want to recreate the drawing in a carving. Not the fish, but the essence of the dark and 'twilight-ish', underwater, vague, etc atmosphere?

[Guest Clive]

Ahh.. you see Leon.. you've given me an idea already despite your hesitation.. I could carve this fish as a negative shape.. oh to much to explain.. will return with experiments... one moment please

[fkvesic]

What I pick up from the drawing is the blocky/flat/immobility/deadness of the body shape, yet the eye is very alive and refined. Contrasts, perhaps? A fish at its last gasp?

[Guest Clive]

I intended to do some fire experiments this morning but while scratching around in one of my many boxes of scrapes looking for suitable offerings I came accross the top of a fossil walrus fishing weight.. I'd cut the rest away years ago..

 

The origanal looked a bit like these weights

 

 

Picture taken of this website..

http://www.scrimshop.com/shopcart/items/artifacts.html

 

Notice that some have a hole drilled into them to attach a fishing line.. my origanal kinda looked like no 3

 

Anyway I did a little bit of crude shaping and came up with this..

 

 

Not quite a fish.. but the beginnings of a fish head.. I like the natural wear around the hole/eye and the general ancient patina.. I could just polish that up... Hey Freda.. the "last gasp" as you put it.

 

Anyway then I scratched around some more and found a piece of the core of a fossil walrus and did a quick bit of shaping and came up with this..

 

 

 

I wonder what would happen if I stained it really dark and then sanded back.. I might get a similiar curly wurly pattern as in my drawing.. but it seems a shame to stain such a beautiful natural colour.. hmmm possibilities

 

But more of that later.. right now I'm going back to my fungus piece.. I've a snail to inlay.

[Guest Clive]

But first I'll do a quick dying experiment with a piece of walrus..

 

Then stained in boiling Potassium Permanganate for a min or two..

Then given a quick sand back with 600 grit paper

And a little more..

And then a quick dip in a light yellow fabric dye to blend..

 

and throw in bin !!

 

Edit.. dug out from bin.. don't ever throw experiments away.

[fkvesic]

Oooh! Thanks for those pics. of experiments and process. They're helpful.

 

Clive, I have a serious question developing, based on the way you're working now, but perhaps it deserves a thread of its own.

 

I've always worked the traditional way in those art forms I chose to explore - have an idea, do the drawings/sketches first and get the idea into your head visually before (though taking into account) starting in on the material. Only then did I branch out and try the method you've described. With the tagua piece I'm working on, I've followed your method and it won't end up as a trad. netsuke - more like a tiny piece for holding in the hand. I don't know if I'm being a bit previous and branching out too soon and wonder what people's opinions would be: 1) go the trad. way first and then, only when sure of the basics, branch out; 2) use both ways of working at the same time; 3) do your own thing and discover the basics as you go along.

 

I'm not likely to do 3), but do seem to be playing around with 2). It also seems that as I'm not immersed in Japanese culture and never will be, that it wouldn't be right to attempt to highjack someone else's tradition entirely. Somehow, I seem to be struggling with how Japanese culture can be melded with European culture in producing netsuke, or netsuke-like objects. I was thinking along the lines of Doug's 'Satyr' here.

 

Don't know if I'm making myself clear...

[Leon]

... and throw in bin !!

 

Edit.. dug out from bin.. don't ever throw experiments away.

 

Edit.. throw back in bin (with all my other experiments).. send bin to Leon.

 

 

Keep the pics coming, me like.

 

 

Freda; It sure deserves a thread on its own.

My method:

If you want your work to speak, make sure you have something to say.

If you also want your material to speak, learn its language. Experiment till you understand each other.

As always I want both.

[tsterling]

How about a solid piece of ivory in the fish shape, paint in your scribbled lines with a resist, and then an acid etch? Hydrochloric acid works (50/50 mix with water) leaving a gummy residue you can easily scrape out. Probably even vinegar would work, albeit a little slower. Followed by dyes or potassium permanganate and sanding back should leave you with slightly raised light-colored lines with darker stripes in the low areas.

 

If the ivory starts out smooth and polished, the standard black resists for metal art etching should work fine, without leaving much of the black behind (like scrimshaw) once removed.

 

Hmm, come to think of it, you could just put in the lines with scrimshaw, either dots or lines. Maybe you know somebody who would let you try their tattoo machine - would that work on ivory to put in bazillions of tiny holes for scrim?

[Guest Clive]

I think I understand Freda.. Personally I'd always advise just following your nose and heart, and I certainly wouldn't be worrying about what is or isn't

a traditional netsuke, there's no such thing.. it only exists in the minds of those who don't understand what artistic traditions actually are or how they are created... but more of that in some other thread.

 

Back to that piece of Walrus I stained..

 

I've scraped the surface clean of any dye on the solid dentine areas at the sides just to see what greater contrast would look like.. looks a bit like a miniture piece of walnut..

[Guest Clive]

Hey Tom.. Howzit going?

 

Yeah.. a bit of etching might be a way forward and scrim might work too.. I have a one of those NSK vibrating handpieces.. and with a when a long sharp needle it basically works very much like a tatooing machine.. I often use it to produce to create fine textures.

 

Hope you are well

Clive

[Phil White]

Hope you're not planning to burn this. If so, give me some warning. I'm sure I will be ably to smell the stench from here.

 

I like how this is developing.

 

Phil

[Phil White]

Freda, I completely understand. I started a thread similar to this a while ago here My intentions were really to explore this sentiment in all aspects.

 

Now back to the subject at hand, so to speak.

 

Phil

[fkvesic]

It looks like the effects in your last pic. could work for the swirly bits on the fish, Clive.

 

Phil, many thanks. Very useful.

[Ana Veler]

Any suggestions would be welcome.

 

 

 

SOURCE

[Guest Clive]

Extrodinary.. Many thanks for that excellent suggestion Ana..

 

Kindest regards

Clive

[dante lopez]

hi clive ,the very first thing that came to my head was the fish carved on a transparency horn maybe ram or bull you know that semi transparent part the fish carved from inside intaglio, and out side play whit the transparency to achieve the texture and play whit the optics that this material offers,that what came to my head or amber live the rough texture in the back and carve the fish inside ,is an idea

[lauri]

Hi Clive, I'm not sure of the rules of this game, but IF I would be making an ugly looking fish of your's (definately no trout), I would use jet and carve it as a relief and then let the fish or the background be gilded. Then maybe sandpaper the fish carefully so that some of the gilding would be lightly left to create an impression of eyes, scales and of course age, if it's going to be the number uno. All your methods of ageing and washing and bleaching are too complicated for a narrow-minded person like me, sorry. Lauri.