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carving cameos


Ekrem

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Hello again,

 

I was just wondering if anyone here has carved cameos in mother of pearl? I have made a pendant by piercing and carving a piece of mother of pearl. I had an awful time sawing and carving it due to tools getting dull frequently.

 

My question is, are there any kind of lubricants used while sawing and carving mother of pearl, or is it the kind of steel the burines are made of makes the difference?

 

 

Best Regards,

 

 

dagistanli

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Hello again,

 

I was just wondering if anyone here has carved cameos in mother of pearl? I have made a pendant by piercing and carving a piece of mother of pearl. I had an awful time sawing and carving it due to tools getting dull frequently.

 

My question is, are there any kind of lubricants used while sawing and carving mother of pearl, or is it the kind of steel the burines are made of makes the difference?

Best Regards,

dagistanli

What are you carving with? I use diamond and fine stone bits in a drill. (you can use a carpenters drill or a small dremel type or dental drill, if you have water access to such, mother of pearl dust is bad for you, try tungsten carbide / diamond files or Use sanding drums. or sand paper. As an experiment I tried rough shaping on a piece of sandstone with some success. small grinding wheels are good. I find steel bits too soft for this material. I have seen some pretty good work done with really primitive tools. The others in this site may have more info. Try anything as an experiment. cooch

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"mother of pearl dust is bad for you," is an understatement! Please read in MATERIALS: Hazardous To Your Health... http://www.thecarvingpath.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=207 --- Mollusc shell hypersensitivity pneumonitis.

 

We are not immune to its effects. Read more about it on the web, and be careful if you use it keep it wet and contained.

 

Janel

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"mother of pearl dust is bad for you,"  is an understatement!  Please read in MATERIALS:  Hazardous To Your Health... http://www.thecarvingpath.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=207 ---  Mollusc shell hypersensitivity pneumonitis.

 

We are not immune to its effects.  Read more about it on the web, and be careful if you use it keep it wet and contained.

 

Janel

 

Hello Janel,

 

Thank you for the warning. I looked at the web you've suggested, but it has left me totally perplexed. The terms they use are quite technical medical wise.

 

Back when I carved the pendant, I had a limited knowledge of its dust being so dangerous. After the end of each day, the whole room, my jewelers bench and everything was covered with white dust, and seeing all that, I started to use a dust mask thinking my lungs wouldn't be able to cope with it, but that was all - just the dust mask.

 

Never thought of using water to depress the dust, but how one can use water while drilling, sawing and carving? How about a dust collectors, the ones we use on the bench while soldering and so on, would it work?

 

I will post the picture of the pendant as soon as I figure out to size it! I don't want to make a mistake again :lol:

 

 

Best regards

 

dagistanli.

 

By the way, your newly organized web looks great!!!

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What are you carving with?  I use diamond and fine stone bits in a drill. (you can use a carpenters drill or a small dremel type or dental drill, if you have water access to such, mother of pearl dust is bad for you,    try tungsten carbide / diamond files or Use sanding drums. or sand paper.  As an experiment I tried rough shaping on a piece of sandstone with some success. small grinding wheels are good.  I find steel bits too soft for this material.  I have seen some pretty good work done with really primitive tools.  The others in this site may have more info.  Try anything as an experiment. cooch

 

Hello biwolf,

 

Thank you for the reply and the contained information therein. I use normal drills for the holes, piercing saws to cut, and push gravers to carve. I've been successful with them, but it takes a long time to finish the work due to tools getting dull so frequently. I haven't used any kind of power tools while carving yet, but will give it a try thoug. I only used power tools for rough shaping like stoning, and drilling, polishing etc. #80 sand paper wrapped on a rectangular stick works the best for rough work, sand paper of all grains work for this stuff. Drilling is no problem, just carving!!!

 

So, my question was to find some kind of material to make my carvers to stand the abrasion in mother of pearls structure as effective as possible, and find a lubricant like we use in cutting metal inorder to cut better and lengthen the sharpness life of the carvers being used.

 

In your post, my attention was drawn to tungsten carbide / diamond files. Is there a way to anneal and re-shape them? I once wanted to re-shape a small scrap air steel rod, and didn't have any success.

 

Best Regards,

 

 

dagistanli

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Hello biwolf,

 

Thank you for the reply and the contained information therein. I use normal drills for the holes, piercing saws to cut, and push gravers to carve. I've been successful with them, but it takes a long time to finish the work due to tools getting dull so frequently. I haven't used any kind of power tools while carving yet, but will give it a try thoug. I only used power tools for rough shaping like stoning, and drilling, polishing etc. #80 sand paper wrapped on a rectangular stick works the best for rough work, sand paper of all grains work for this stuff. Drilling is no problem, just carving!!!

 

So, my question was to find some kind of material to make my carvers to stand the abrasion in mother of pearls structure as effective as possible, and find a lubricant like we use in cutting metal inorder to cut better and lengthen the sharpness life of the carvers being used.

 

In your post, my attention was drawn to tungsten carbide / diamond files. Is there a way to anneal and re-shape them? I once wanted to re-shape a small scrap air steel rod, and didn't have any success.

 

Best Regards,

dagistanli

I don`t know about reshaping or annealing tungsten carbide, but if you apply heat to diamond tools, you will ruin them. When carving with diamond bits (in a small drill) I use water to keep them cool so they don`t burn out. If you apply too much pressure on the bit, the point will get too hot and burn out, even if you use water. When I carve small objects, shell, quartz, jade, etc., I generally dip them in a bowl of water to get them wet when they start to dry out. Don`t let them dry out. You could try using your gravers with grit and light oil pushing the tool back and forth. (Grit is some form of abrasive, (steel filings? you could also use fine carborundum dust (sand paper grit) Some of the gem carvers I used to work with would make their own bits for carving. They would melt orange lacquer and mix it with different grades of grit. They would then pick up a lump of this mix on a nail or steel rod. Put it in the drill and rotate it against some sandpaper to true it up. I have never tried this myself, but it worked fine for them. You could also use a hand operated drill. Something like the Chinese and other old style carvers. I haven`t a clue what is available in Istanbul, but you could check out the local bazaar. It`s amazing what you can pick up just by observing other carvers. You can always adapt a method people have been using for centuries. Hope this was helpful and not just confusing. cooch

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I don`t know about reshaping or annealing tungsten carbide, but if you apply heat to diamond tools, you will ruin them.  When carving with diamond bits (in a small drill) I use water to keep them cool so they don`t burn out.  If you apply too much pressure on the bit, the point will get too hot and burn out, even if you use water.  When I carve small objects, shell, quartz, jade, etc., I generally dip them in a bowl of water to get them wet when they start to dry out. Don`t let them dry out.  You could try using your gravers with grit and light oil pushing the tool back and forth. (Grit is some form of abrasive, (steel filings? you could also use fine carborundum dust (sand paper grit) Some of the gem carvers I used to work with would make their own bits for carving.  They would melt orange lacquer and mix it with different grades of grit. They would then pick up a lump of this mix on a nail or steel rod.  Put it in the drill and rotate it against some sandpaper to true it up.  I have never tried this myself, but it worked fine for them.  You could also use a hand operated drill. Something like the Chinese and other old style carvers.  I haven`t a clue what is available in Istanbul, but you could check out the local bazaar.  It`s amazing what you can pick up just by observing other carvers.  You can always adapt a method people have been using for centuries.  Hope this was helpful and not just confusing.  cooch

 

 

Hello Biwolf,

 

Well I will send a picture of what I do, and than we'll talk about it, because I couldn't explain what I really am after.

 

Best Regards,

 

dagistanli.

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I don`t know about reshaping or annealing tungsten carbide, but if you apply heat to diamond tools, you will ruin them. When carving with diamond bits (in a small drill) I use water to keep them cool so they don`t burn out. If you apply too much pressure on the bit, the point will get too hot and burn out, even if you use water. When I carve small objects, shell, quartz, jade, etc., I generally dip them in a bowl of water to get them wet when they start to dry out. Don`t let them dry out. You could try using your gravers with grit and light oil pushing the tool back and forth. (Grit is some form of abrasive, (steel filings? you could also use fine carborundum dust (sand paper grit) Some of the gem carvers I used to work with would make their own bits for carving. They would melt orange lacquer and mix it with different grades of grit. They would then pick up a lump of this mix on a nail or steel rod. Put it in the drill and rotate it against some sandpaper to true it up. I have never tried this myself, but it worked fine for them. You could also use a hand operated drill. Something like the Chinese and other old style carvers. I haven`t a clue what is available in Istanbul, but you could check out the local bazaar. It`s amazing what you can pick up just by observing other carvers. You can always adapt a method people have been using for centuries. Hope this was helpful and not just confusing. cooch

 

Hello biwolf,

 

It took me a while to take the picture of what I've done a few years ago, but here it is :blink:

 

I hope it helps for the discussion. Now what you see is cut with a piercing saw, and carved with classic push gravers. I can not use grit or diamond powder couse if I use them, I will ruin the sharpened edge of the carver. I didn't use any bits with a flexshaft for this job, reason being, with the bits the cuts are concave (like a 90degree turned D), and in most of my work like the stars in the earring it has to be flat and sharp.

 

It may be then, probably I'm not quite use to using flexshaft in my carvings, as I can see from your work, you have well controll over them.

 

Its interesting thoug all those marvelous carvings they have done in Egypt many years ago, were done with hand drills, and copper charged with abrasives.

 

I sure would apreciate any thing you may advice in this regard.

 

Thanks again.

 

Best Regards,

 

dagistanli.

 

P.S. The last time I sent a picture, caused a lot of trouble to Dfogg, I hope it doesn't happen again, other wise this will be the last!

post-155-1132518369.jpg

post-155-1132518814.jpg

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I don`t know about reshaping or annealing tungsten carbide, but if you apply heat to diamond tools, you will ruin them. When carving with diamond bits (in a small drill) I use water to keep them cool so they don`t burn out. If you apply too much pressure on the bit, the point will get too hot and burn out, even if you use water. When I carve small objects, shell, quartz, jade, etc., I generally dip them in a bowl of water to get them wet when they start to dry out. Don`t let them dry out. You could try using your gravers with grit and light oil pushing the tool back and forth. (Grit is some form of abrasive, (steel filings? you could also use fine carborundum dust (sand paper grit) Some of the gem carvers I used to work with would make their own bits for carving. They would melt orange lacquer and mix it with different grades of grit. They would then pick up a lump of this mix on a nail or steel rod. Put it in the drill and rotate it against some sandpaper to true it up. I have never tried this myself, but it worked fine for them. You could also use a hand operated drill. Something like the Chinese and other old style carvers. I haven`t a clue what is available in Istanbul, but you could check out the local bazaar. It`s amazing what you can pick up just by observing other carvers. You can always adapt a method people have been using for centuries. Hope this was helpful and not just confusing. cooch

 

Hello biwolf,

 

It took me a while to take the picture of what I've done a few years ago, but here it is :blink:

 

I hope it helps for the discussion. Now what you see is cut with a piercing saw, and carved with classic push gravers. I can not use grit or diamond powder couse if I use them, I will ruin the sharpened edge of the carver. I didn't use any bits with a flexshaft for this job, reason being, with the bits the cuts are concave (like a 90degree turned D), and in most of my work like the stars in the earring it has to be flat and sharp.

 

It may be then, probably I'm not quite use to using flexshaft in my carvings, as I can see from your work, you have well controll over them.

 

Its interesting thoug all those marvelous carvings they have done in Egypt many years ago, were done with hand drills, and copper charged with abrasives.

 

I sure would apreciate any thing you may advice in this regard.

 

Thanks again.

 

Best Regards,

 

dagistanli.

 

P.S. The last time I sent a picture, caused a lot of trouble to Dfogg, I hope it doesn't happen again, other wise this will be the last!

Hi, the pictures turned out great. What metal did you join your pieces with? You do very nice work. I like the rough, unmachined look. Have you considered roughing out the shell with a flexshaft with tungsten bits? I always try to get rid of excess material quickly, so I can spend time on the refinements. You could then finish them with your gravers, etc. I will have to try a piece of shell with my tools, so I can better give advice. I have a few that a friend wants done just sitting in my box. Time to do it I guess. biwolf

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Hi, the pictures turned out great.  What metal did you join your pieces with?  You do very nice work.  I like the rough, unmachined look.  Have you considered roughing out the shell with a flexshaft with tungsten bits?  I always try to get rid of excess material quickly, so I can spend time on the refinements.  You could then finish them  with your gravers, etc.  I will have to try a piece of shell with my tools, so I can better give advice.  I have a few that a friend wants done just sitting in my box.  Time to do it I guess.  biwolf

 

Hi Biwolf,

 

Thank you for the compliment biwolf. I used Sterling silver to join the pieces together. It's been quite few years since I've done that though, and my wife has been wearing it now and then ever since, so the silver joints need a bit of cleaning.

Next time I will make use of your advice and rough out the shell with a flexshaft, and see how it works. I usualy do the roughing on my polishing motor with a stone attached to it, but I think it's better to use the flexshaft, cause the polishing motor causes a lot of vibration which is not good for more delicate pieces. By the way that "Stone Eagle", is it marble?, if it is, did you use powdered tungsten carbide to polish it? Have you considered some thing of that design carved from ivory as a handle for a cane? I would greatly apreciate to see the pieces in the box when they are carved.

 

Best Regards.

 

dagistanli.

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Hi Biwolf,

 

Thank you for the compliment biwolf. I used Sterling silver to join the pieces together. It's been quite few years since I've done that though, and my wife has been wearing it now and then ever since, so the silver joints need a bit of cleaning.

Next time I will make use of your advice and rough out the shell with a flexshaft,  and see how it works. I usualy do the roughing on my polishing motor with a stone attached to it, but I think it's better to use the flexshaft, cause the polishing motor causes a lot of vibration which is not good for more delicate pieces. By the way that "Stone Eagle", is it marble?, if it is, did you use powdered tungsten carbide to polish it? Have you considered some thing of that design carved from ivory as a handle for a cane? I would greatly apreciate to see the pieces in the box when they are carved.

 

Best Regards.

 

dagistanli.

Hi again. I understand completely about your wife. Mine gets the pick of whatever she wants. Your wife is a dentist, right? You could use the tiniest dental bits (diamond or tungsten) then your gravers. The eagle is Brazilian soapstone and I polished it with steel wool and then rubbed clear paste wax into it. I do ivory pieces of similar design for canes and pendants. When I figure out how to post a picture properly, I will do so. So far my pictures go to a Kodak link. Maybe that will do the job. biwolf

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Hi again.  I understand completely about your wife.  Mine gets the pick of whatever she wants.  Your wife is a dentist, right?  You could use the tiniest dental bits (diamond or tungsten) then your gravers.  The eagle is Brazilian soapstone and I polished it with steel wool and then  rubbed clear  paste wax into it.  I do ivory pieces of similar design for canes and pendants.  When I figure out how to post a picture properly, I will do so.  So far my pictures go to a Kodak link.  Maybe that will do the job.  biwolf

 

 

Hi,

 

I've never tried to carve a stone, don't have the courage to do that yet! Yes, my wife is a dentist, and I have tried to use some of her dental burrs, but for plain surfaces, I guess I have to do more practice! But one thing might be of some interest to you though, they use narrow strips of diamond papers in various grits. you can get it from any dental supply. I string it and clamp in a jewelers saw, and use it for cleaning up little slots in the ornaments. Its quite useful in hard to get in gaps.

 

Best Regards

 

dagistanli

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Hi,

 

I've never tried to carve a stone, don't have the courage to do that yet! Yes, my wife is a dentist, and I have tried to use some of her dental burrs, but for plain surfaces, I guess I have to do more practice! But one thing might be of some interest to you though, they use narrow strips of diamond papers in various grits. you can get it from any dental supply. I string it and clamp in a jewelers saw, and use it  for cleaning up little slots in the ornaments. Its quite useful in hard to get in gaps.

 

Best Regards

 

dagistanli

Hi again. I will have to get some of that diamond paper. Thanks for the advice. As for carving stone. Turkey has limestone and marble, talc (soapstone) and probably has quartz crystals and agates. Small about 1 inch or so. You could try them. Soapstone is pretty soft, carve it with a knife. Crystal and agates, on the other hand you could work with your flexshaft and diamond bits. Try some low relief for practice. Just a suggestion. Must go now. Fell down my backstairs Monday night and broke my ankle and am just starting to feel like playing with my toys again. Might be too soon, I just noticed my wife rolling her eyes and mumbling about silly old something or other. Will try to post a picture when I get mobile again. biwolf

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Hi again.  I will have to get some of that diamond paper.  Thanks for the advice.  As for carving stone.  Turkey has limestone and marble,  talc (soapstone) and probably has quartz crystals and agates.  Small about 1 inch or so.  You could try them.  Soapstone is pretty soft, carve it with a knife. Crystal  and agates, on the other hand you could work with your flexshaft and diamond bits.  Try some low relief for practice.  Just a suggestion. Must go now.  Fell down my backstairs Monday night and broke my ankle and am just starting to feel like playing with my toys again.  Might be too soon, I just noticed my wife rolling her eyes and mumbling about silly old something or other.  Will try to post a picture when I get mobile again.  biwolf

 

Hi Biwolf,

 

I'm sorry that you've broke your ankle, and I hope you recover soon! Same thing happened to me back in 1966, I fell down back stairs of our porch, and the next thing I remembered was my neighbours staring at me while I was lying on the ground, and they told me that I had tumbled all the way down the stairs, but then I was quite young so nothing happened, except some pain here and there. We have to be careful at this age though. Its good that you didn't have the worst.

 

Regarding the diamond paper I've mentioned, if you can't find any where you are located, just send me your mailing address and I'll be glad to send you two of them so that you can try and see if it works on the pieces you work on.

 

I will take your advice on soap stone as soon as I get one. I think it's going to be better for me to start with a softone, and keep you posted as I go on.

 

Thank you Biwolf

 

Get well soon, and my Best Regards to your wife also, and I hope you both enjoy a very happy Thanks Giving day!

 

 

 

dagistanli

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